Is the loving God of the New Testament the same as the angry God of the Old Testament?

In your heart. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. N. My heart I'm feeling Heat. Yeah. Hey. Hey. I want to hold you. Hey, hey, hey. Oh, hey. Hey. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to Crowd Church. I'm here with S. S. How you doing? Hi, everyone. I'm brilliant, thanks, Matt. How are you today? Yeah, good. Good. It was sunny today. So, you know what? It was sunny for a brief moment in time, actually. And so, it just makes you feel a little bit better about life, doesn't it? It really does. Yeah, definitely. I was watching um a Bill Bailey comedy thing this week, and he said that Bill Bailey. Yeah, he's so funny. So, do do watch on this particular one, he was talking about how British people particularly say, you know, how are you doing? And the answer is not too bad, all things considered. I'm not going to even try and kind of go into what he did, but um it has made me go I'm not going to say not too bad. When someone ask me how I am, I'm going to tell you actually how it is. Really good or not that great, but I'm not going to say not too bad. Not too bad. It's a It is a very British thing. I don't know what it means. Not too bad. Not too bad. It's the It's the all things considered. And he goes into this really funny thing about really have you considered all things? All things. So yeah, do do try and watch that if you can. Very fun. But yeah, I'm I'm I'm good. Thanks. You're good. That all of that said, you're good. That was the bit we were getting to. Yeah, we're in a good place. Brilliant. Well, welcome to Crowd Church. This is our live stream. So if you're watching with us live, do be sure to say hi in the comments. Join in the conversation. It will be great to hear from you. Absolutely. We love to hear what you've got to say. We love it when you join in. So please feel free. It's a few shout outs already today to Matt and to um Nicola. We got Trev along with us and James and a few other people. So, it's great to have you with us. So, keep saying hi. Tell us where you're watching from today. Um and join in with the comments. Later on, you'll have a chance to say what you think about um the talk and ask any questions as well. So, definitely join in with us today. That'd be brilliant. Absolutely. Now, for those of you who don't know, uh Crowd is a digital church, right? But what does that mean? It basically means we're not in a building. We're here online. You see, church is about people. It's about the community, not just the building. So, we're here to do things a little bit differently. So, do let us know what you think. We say that we are an online church for those that might not see the point of church. Uh, and we're here to kind of help you figure out how Jesus can help you live a more meaningful life. That's it in a nutshell, right? Yeah, absolutely. We hope that you find this actually really relevant to your everyday life, not some kind of um high fluting stuff that you can't actually relate to, but things are actually going to make a difference to you in your daily life. That's the point. And we love you to get involved like we said in the comments, but also there's other ways to get involved as well. We've got a WhatsApp number, haven't we, Matt? Make it appear on magic. Ah, he's ready. He's ready for it. There's no catching Matt out today. The WhatsApp number is there. Um or you can contact us via our website as well. So, we would really love to hear from you. Of course, as well, we would love to pray for you if there's anything that you would like prayer for. We believe that um God answers prayers and so we would love to do that if that's something we can help you with today. Absolutely. Now, you may have not been to church before. You may have gone a few years since you last been at church. Maybe you're like me and S. We kind of like we like church. We like going to church. We're a bit of a church fan. So, wherever you are on your faith journey, just wanted to say that you are welcome here. You're welcome here on the crowd liveream. It really generally is great to see you. We are live. So, as we said, do make sure you say hi in the comments, but you know, keep the comments at least a little bit respectful. Uh that's the only thing that we ask. Uh and that's that's it. That's the only rule that I think that we have, isn't it? Definitely. Unless it's about Matt, then feel free, but otherwise everybody else, you know, be kind. Be kind. Be kind. I loved one of the earlier comments from another Matt. Um if those of you that have um been coming to crew uh coming to crew coming to crowd change the name crew church. Oh my goodness. If you've been coming that's what we should call it from now on. It's crew. We'll take that. Let's gloss over quick. Move on. Um if you've been coming to Crown Church for a while then you'll know that the um little intro bit the kind of all the VT and stuff that Matt does puts together at the beginning. Uh there was a a piece that Matt picked out from a talk that I did quite a few weeks ago where I talked about it was a very minor part of the talk where I talked about a speeding ticket and there was a picture of me and there was a police car going across the bottom that Matt put in and uh that is now gone. But of course Matt crew sadly is missing the footage of me and the police car. So you just have to get used to that. That is not there anymore. We're not going to mention that again. Are we Matt? Uh I I wouldn't say that. S Oh okay. I would don't don't be that naive. That's all I'm saying. There is a chance it could come and find its way back. That's all I'm saying. Absolutely. Well, I'm bound to say I'm bound to say something else which gets repeated again and again and again as you know let's just let's look forward to the next usually every week's s people just go back and watch certain bits on repeat. Yeah. Yeah. I do need to I do need to think before I speak sometimes. I apologies. apologize. Let's do that. Let's move on quick because I feel like you're in the hot seat enough. So, today we have uh the beautiful Sharon, uh my amazing wife. She's talking to us today. Uh asking the question, is the loving God of the New Testament the same as the angry God in the Old Testament? You know, quite often people have a real difficult time reconciling uh God in the Old Testament and God in the New Testament. And actually when you get into it, they both make sense. And that's what we're going to find out in today's talk. Shannon's going to do a fantastic job. I know because I've heard the the sermon already. Sermon, the talk already. And of course, I'm narrative. So I know it's going to be fantastic. So do stick around for that. After uh Sharon has done her talk, we're going to have a small time of worship and reflection. And then after that, Sal and I will be back again to chat about the talk and your questions that you put in the comments. So, we're going to go through those. Uh, I love Conversation Street. That's what we started calling it. Fair play. We've ripped the name totally off that, you know, ripoff of Top Gear that was on Amazon. Well, that well known TV Pro. I can't remember what it was called, but it was Top Gear Part Two. Uh, anyway, um, that show, we call it Conversation Street. I always love Conversation Street. And then we aim to finish usually around somewhere between quarter to 5, 5:00, somewhere around there. So, we'll be with you for about 45 minutes to an hour. Brilliant. It sounds really good, Matt. Looking forward to that. And that question there, isn't it, that Sharon's going to be looking at today is a classic example of crowd church and why it's so brilliant that we're looking at these things that, you know, we're all sort of thinking and wondering about, but perhaps we haven't heard people talk about before. So, that'll be really interesting to hear what she's got to say and then to discuss it afterwards. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's going to be great. Now, if you're live with us and you're watching this, make sure you say hi in the comments. I know many of you have. Share it out with your friends. Invite them along to church. say, "Listen, I'm watching church. Why don't you come watch it with me?" Uh, and see who joins us. We've got Antoine and Brazil. Uh, bonjour. Uh, that's as far as my French goes on a Sunday afternoon. Uh, we've got Trev and Jackie. He wrote there with a big and. So, you know, sorry, Jackie. Yeah, sorry Jackie. We didn't want to miss you out that you're you're there as well. Hi, Jackie. Welcome. Welcome this afternoon. Lovely to have you with us. Uh, apparently Nicola's got a great question this week. So, let's, you know, watch out for that. We missed that. We missed that last week. So, that's looking that would be really good to have that back again, Nicola. And, uh, Trev said that he's worried about your chair mat that it might collapse. So, you do lean back in your chair for us. Lean back bit more. Bit more. It doesn't actually collapse. Um, Trev, sorry. It's one of those chairs. You can't see it. And I wish I could show you, but the camera's fixed. It's one of those chairs that actually got a flippy thing out so I can almost recline horizontally in this. And occasionally I've been known to have a little nap in the afternoon in my chair. I feel like I feel like we there is some mileage in this. If I can get Josh Edmonson, Matt's son, involved in uh perhaps doctoring this chair somehow. Oh no, it doesn't break. It doesn't break. It doesn't break. As Matt's on the floor laughing because normally S said something that's made me laugh. Uh what's this Matty? You need a vet. Oh, cuz those swans are sick. What swans? Oh, right. When I did that. Okay. Yeah, I'm with you. Okay, great. Uh, crew church. Brilliant. Yeah, it's not going to happen, Matt. Just want to point that out. It's never going to happen. But for that brief moment in time, it was funny. We'll we'll give it enjoy it for that two seconds. Yeah. Can we finish before five? Antoine's loving your Antoine is loving your um French speaking attempts there. So, well done, Matt. Well, Mercy Boku. Oh, stop there. Right, shall we move on? Yeah, let's move on quick. Apparently, it was a great rugby game yesterday. Yeah, we definitely need to move on quick. Uh, so um, well done, Matt. Brilliant French speaking skills. And Matt, we will try and finish before 5 so you can watch the footy. No. Uh, no problem. Awesome. Right, should we jump straight into it? Should we head on over to the talk? Yeah, let's have the wonderful Sharon. This is Sharon Edmonson talking about is the God of the Old Testament the loving God of the New Testament. Here we go. Today I'm going to look at the question, is the loving God of the New Testament the same as the angry God of the Old Testament? If you're not familiar with the Bible, I'll give you a bit of background to this question. The Bible is made up of different books that are divided into two sections. The Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament contains 24 books written by a variety of people over several centuries and covers a time frame from the creation of the world until about 400 years before Jesus walked the earth as a man. The books include history, law, poetry, and prophecy. The New Testament is made up of 27 books which include four eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus and some letters that were written by early Christians to the new churches that had formed. So what's the problem? In the Old Testament, there are many passages where God appears to be angry and punishes people for what they've done. To give you an example, in the book of numbers, there's a verse that says this. The Lord's anger burned against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness 40 years until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone. And then in the New Testament, we see verses such as, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life." And this one, the one who doesn't love love uh has yet to know God, for God is love. That verse doesn't limit God to being loving. It says he actually is love. So sometimes people read these things and ask, is the God of the Old Testament actually the same as the God of the New Testament? I'm going to look at that question as we look at the our next passage in the book of Mark, which is one of the eyewitness accounts um of Jesus' life. The answer to that question is our destination point. But on the way, we're going to stop and look at a few other things, including how Jesus handles the most stressful event of his life, unanswered prayer, and the question, our love and anger connected. Up until today's passage, Jesus has been teaching people and performing fantastic miracles. And this week, we see him as he's about to be arrested, taken to court, and killed by crucifixion. and he knows that this is about to happen. To say he's in a very stressful situation is an understatement. I don't expect that any of us have been in that exact situation, but most of us have had very stress stressful situations at some point in our lives. What do you do when you're in stressful situations? How do you cope? Why not write your answers to that question in the comments? I asked a few people to tell me what they do to cope when they're in difficult situ situations. and I asked for both things that we might consider spiritual and things that we might not consider spiritual. So, let's see what they said. So, how do I cope with stress? Um, I think there's probably a few things I do. Uh, first thing that comes to mind is I like to verbalize things. I'm a sort of a verbal processor. So, Sally will tell you that every day. Um, so talking to her and talking to great friends and family that uh will listen um is a great way of me getting things out of my mind and helping me to unpack stuff. Uh but also, you know, you then get something back um in terms of their perspective on the situation and probably telling you it's not quite as bad as you thought it was. So, uh yeah, that's fantastic. Secondly, just switching off switching my brain off doing something like mundane task, you know, mowing the lawn is is brilliant. you know, listening to music, watching movies, hanging out with family, and doing stuff, doing crazy things. And also during lockdown, I set up my drum kit in the garage, which is just the the best stress reliever ever. Um, although my neighbors might not always think that and appreciate that. Um, and then last but not least, just coming to God. um whether it's simple quick fire prayers of cries for help for God to kind of help me and uh or whether it's more kind of God mindfulness type of stuff where I put on some worship music and just trying just trying to get his peace. I think that's the main thing that I seek is God's peace for a situation. I know that it it may not change and he's probably teaching me something through that situation, but it's just getting God's peace to know that uh he's there, he's with me and uh and you know, I I'll come through the other side of it. So, uh yeah, those are my top tips. So, I would say some of the things that have been helping me in terms of you know when you're going through stressful thing would be definitely journaling. So, writing obviously all the things that is happening but also the emotions that you know I'm feeling odd through those situation and I think from there it helps me you know to decide things like if I can do it myself or you know you know seek for help you know from someone but also definitely prayer I do I do think you know praying for especially for things like peace you know in those situation have you know seemed to really help me as well. Hello, my name is Alistister. Shad's asked me to share what I do uh every day when I get stressed, if I get stressed. Um I used to be a bit of an adrenaline junkie. Um but now when I get stressed, I tend to uh um practice deep breathing um and silent prayer um which consists of saying uh the Our Father or um a sacred word like Jesus. And that's what I do when I get stressed. Thanks for those videos, everyone. When I'm really stressed, I tend to talk to Matt or another friend or I write down my thoughts and I pray. I also like to distract myself by watching TV or by reading. So, let's see what Jesus did in his situation. How did he deal with it? Then Jesus went to his disciple with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane. And he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him. And he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed to the with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." Going a little further, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My father, if it's possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as you will." So in his moment of trouble, Jesus asks for the support of his friends. And out of those friends, he has a smaller inner circle of friends who he's really real with. You can hear the anguish in his voice as he says to his closest friends, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death." Now, I've never been as stressed as Jesus must have been at that point. But I have had many times when I've been extremely stressed. During one particular time, I remember trying to go for a walk in a country park near where I lived and only managing to get from the car to just outside the p the car park and then I had to sit and wait until I had enough energy to get back in the car and go home. So with Jesus after he's talked to his friends, he then pours out his heart to God. As Christians, we believe that there's one God, but that he's made up of three persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is a difficult concept to get our heads around because we don't really have an equivalent to this in the physical world. We believe that Jesus is God the Son in human form. And I find it encouraging that Jesus does not um does not only seemingly spiritual things of like pouring out his heart to God uh the Father, in other words, praying, but also the much more downto-ear thing of getting help from his mates. The Bible sees us not just as spiritual beings, but as physical, emotional, and social beings. Jesus, the only perfect human to have existed, is turning to his mates for support. Bizarrely, I also find it encouraging that Jesus didn't get his prayer answered the way he wanted. He asked if there was any other way to get the same result without going through all the pain. And God the Father said, "No." Have you ever not had a prayer answered the way you wanted? you're in good company. The Christian life isn't about God being our fairy godmother and everything going smoothly. There is so much more depth to it than that. Anyway, let's see what Jesus' mates did to support him. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. Simon, he said to Peter, are you asleep? Couldn't you keep watch for 1 hour? Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. It would seem his friends didn't do so well at supporting him. If you're wondering why Jesus called Peter Simon, it's because he was known by both names. Maybe if Jesus gives them another chance, they'll do better. Once more, he went away and prayed the same thing. When he came back, he again found them sleeping because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him. So, no improvement there. Then I bet they didn't know what to say to him. How about one more chance? Returning the third time, he said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough. The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hand of sinners. Rise, let us go. Here comes my betrayer." To get back to today's question, I want to focus in on verses 38 and 39 where Jesus says to his friends that his soul was overwhelmed to the point of death and he asked God to take this cup from him. Up until now, Jesus has looked pretty in control. Now, he turns to God and pleads, "Is there any way I can get out of this?" There's a sense of horror about um what is going to happen? And as Tim Keller points out in his book King's Cross, Jesus doesn't act like other heroes from ancient accounts or even accounts of how first Christian martyrs died. They all seem to face death bravely and calmly. But here we have our hero trying to get out of his situation. Tim Keller asked the question, why have many of Jesus' followers died better than him? He believes it was because Jesus was facing something the other martyrs didn't. Not just physical death, but something much worse that made physical death seem small. What's at the heart of this? Jesus said, "Take this cup from me." In he Hebrew scripture, cup is a metaphor for the anger God has towards human evil. His divine justice poured out on injustice. Before this, God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit had lived in perfect love and unity with each other. Now Jesus is experiencing a taste of what it's going to be like to be cut off from all of that when he's crucified. To be cut off from all that love and light and wonderfulness that he had had and to take all our guilt onto himself. To be surrounded by pure evil. He began to be filled with the horror of it all. Far from being a god of anger only in the Old Testament, the whole of the New Testament is focused on God's anger being poured out on Jesus on our behalf and the benefit that that has brought us. We don't like the idea of a God of anger. We like the idea of a God of love. The problem is if you want a loving God, you have to have an angry God too. Loving people get angry not in spite of their love but because of it. If you see people destroying themselves or others lives and you don't get angry, maybe you don't care enough, the more loving you are, the more ferociously angry you'll be whenever what at whatever harms your beloved. So if God is loving and good, he has to be angry at evil. Listen to what a guy called Mirislav Vulv says. It's a long quote, but I think it gets the point across really well. I used to think that wroth was unworthy of God. Isn't God love? Shouldn't divine love be beyond wroth? God is love, and God loves every person and every creature. That's exactly why God is wrothful against some of them. My last resilience to the idea of God's wroth was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, the region from which I come. According some to some estimate, 200,000 people were killed and over three million were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed. My people shelled day in and day out. Some of them brutalized beyond imagination. And I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century where 800,000 people were hacked to death in 100 days. How did God react to the carnage? by doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion by refusing to condemn the bloodbath, but instead affirming the perpetrators basic goodness. Wasn't God angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God's wroth, I came to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn't wrothful at the sight of the world's evil. God isn't wrothful in spite of being love. He God is wrothful because God is love. God is angry about wrong and injustice. And being God, his standard is so much higher than ours. Being a God of justice, he can't just turn a blind eye. But none of us could survive his judgment. No one vaguely spiritual dirty could survive in his presence. And yet he made us for relationship with him. How does he solve this problem? by taking his anger onto himself so that we get a new start and can get connected with him again. And then he gives us the power to live right through his Holy Spirit. This is one of my favorite verses. But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. And this is not child abuse as some would suggest because when we say that Jesus is the son of God, it's not in the way that we have sons. Jesus is God and equal to God the father but has a different role and has always existed. Jesus said this about his life. No one takes it from me but I lay it down of my own accord. So, going back to the topic of God's anger, his anger about the things that hurt and destroy us shows how much he loves us. God loves you and me so much and hates what destroys us so much that he's prepared to go through so much agony himself in order for his justice to be served. A God that just lets us do whatever we want and doesn't mind. Isn't a loving God at all. He doesn't care enough to get angry about what's wrong. This is the God that Christians worship. A God who loves us passionately and values each of us enough to be angry when we hurt ourselves and other people. He is a God who is so desperate for us that he's prepared to come to earth as one of us and let us kill him in a horrendous way so that justice is served for our crimes but in a way that leaves a door open for us to have a relationship with him. And yet he doesn't force a relationship. He gently invites us to know his love but leaves the choice with us. This is amazing. Just as we see God's anger in the Old and the New Testament, we also see his love, the reason for his anger in the Old and the New Testament. Here's a verse about his love from the Old Testament. For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you. And my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the Lord, who has compassion on you. And although this love means that he gets angry about the wrong and injustice in the world, he is slow to get angry. Like this verse from the Old Testament says, the Lord is slow to anger. Um, sorry. The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. If you're not currently a Christ follower, I wonder what things are stopping you from following this God. People have many reasons. For some, it may be that actually they want to live life their own way and decide what is right and wrong for themselves and don't want to be answerable to some higher power or higher God. Maybe you've had a bad experience with Christians. And for others it may be that this all sounds great but there is the question is this actually true? And this is a totally valid question. The Bible it says says self says and if Christ is not alive you are still lost in your sins and your faith is fantasy. It would also mean that those believers in Christ who've passed away have simply perished. If the only benefit of our hope in Christ is limited to this life on earth. We deserve to be pitted more than all others. In other words, if Jesus didn't really die and wasn't really raised to life again, Christianity is based on a lie and it's just fantasy and you should pity Christians. But if Jesus did really rise from the dead and is who he says he is, then that has implications for everyone. I don't have time to look at that question now, but we're going to be looking at that in a few weeks when we get to the story of the resurrection of Jesus. So, keep tuned in. But for now, I'm going to hand back to Matt. Wow. Thanks, babe. Uh, that was a great talk, wasn't it? You know, this whole idea of Jesus uh taking on himself the anger of God because God cares enough to be angry. It's not a sermon that I've heard that much if I'm honest with you. Uh, and a cracking job. So, I really enjoyed that. Now, one of the things in that talk, the sort of the location where it all took place is kind of was in the garden. It's in what we call the garden of Gethsemane, which is where Jesus sort of goes to pray. He sort of has his friends, you know, he wants the support of his friends. They fell asleep as Sharon talked about. And he's kind of praying and he feels like this is the most stressful and horrific place. This is the darkest place for Jesus. Uh and he sweats blood. It's an immense amount of stress which is going on in his life and Sharon explained why and we can understand that here's the thing right in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus was alone on the cross as we'll find out he cries my God my God why have you forsaken me but the the amazing thing is because of all of that when we're in those dark places we are not alone actually uh God is with us whether we know that or whether we don't whether we feel that or whether we don't and God is with us and for us. And this song that we are about to sing, well, it kind of taps into that idea a little bit. So, um, the first verse says, "Now the darkness fades into new beginnings." Do you know what I mean? It's because we we can be in those dark places, but they can fade. The darkness can fade into a new beginning because Christ is with us and for us. And that is an amazing thing. A totally amazing thing. So, we're going to do uh some worship and reflection now and we're going to play this song called Overcome. If this is your first time with us or if you're new or you're not kind of used to this worship thing, just read the words, read along or just listen to the words or think about what Sharon said. Just take a few moments now just to let everything sort of sink in. So, we call this worship and reflection. It's a time to reflect, a time to think. And if you're comfortable and it's safe to do so, by all means, sing along. And then Sally and I will be right back after this. Now the darkness fades into new beings as we lift our eyes to a hope beyond. All creation waits with an expectation to declare the reign of the Lord our We will not be moved when the earth gives way. For there is a one who's overcome. And for every field there's an empty grave. Now the silence praise in the name of Jesus as the heavens cry. Let the earth respond. All creation shouts with a voice of triumph And for everything He shall reign forever. Strongholds now surrender for the Lord our God has overcome. Who can be against us? Jesus our defender. He is Lord and he has Who can be against us? Jesus our limb. He is Lord and he has overcome. For there is a one is overcome. For there is someone who's overcome. And for every fear Wow. Wow. What a great song. I do like that song. Uh, okay. So, S, let's have a conversation, shall we? Let's jump straight into the conversation street. How did you get how did you like that talk? Yeah, I thought Sharon did a brilliant job. Thank you, Sharon. Not an easy topic to talk about, but I thought you really brought out some some interesting ideas there for us to talk about. So, it was really really good. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And Nicola, to answer your question, will Sharon be live? Sharon is live in the comments. Uh, so if you've got questions you would like to ask Sharon, Sharon, I dare say we'll jump in on the comments and chat away to you. Uh, and Sharon did put in the comments there, uh, that if you want to know more about the stuff she was talking about, do check out Tim Keller's book called King's Cross, uh, which is a phenomenal read, let me tell you, and definitely worth being on your bookshelf if you've not already read it. So, do check that out. It's called King's Cross. So, uh, your husband actually made his video debut in that talk. He did. Brilliant. Nice one, Jay. Yeah. Good. And he did say that he is a verbal processor. Oh my goodness, he is a verbal processor. Very different from that point of view. He likes to talk and talk and talk through things. And I'm quite the opposite. I do a lot of sort of internal processing before I before I kind of actually say how I feel or that I'm worrying about something. Quite different there. Yeah. So, how does that work in the Birch household then? Um, it works pretty well. It does work pretty well. Um, I'm a good listener, so that's kind of That's a good job, really, isn't it? It's just a good job. Yeah. Yeah. And is he patient with you, waiting on you to sort of say how you are? Yeah, I think so. And then he's got better over the years at kind of, you know, proddding me to actually because sometimes that's not a good thing. You know, keeping that all internalized in your own head isn't a good a good thing. Sometimes you need to actually, you know, talk about those things and get it out there and hear someone else's perspective. Especially if you're worrying about something when you often when you actually speak it out loud, the power of of that worry is less even just in doing that. Um, so that's that's kind of really helpful. So yeah, it works well. It does. I remember when uh we were first married and um I used to stress a lot about money. I mean, I know some people have written this in the I know Matt wrote this in the comments. I stressed a lot about money because we didn't have any back then. We had debts. That's what we had. We had debts. We had negative money. That's what we had. And um one of the things that I I did that I realized was very helpful to me was just actually to write down what the actual current financial situation was for us. Because when I wrote it down, I had it in very definite figures. It was in black and white. I could understand it. Do you know what I mean? Whereas if I didn't write it down, then it was it was ideas in the back of my head that weren't concrete and I'd worry about it more. And then I I I remember just writing it out on a piece of paper and if I'd stress about it, I'd be like, "Right, I'm just going to read that piece of paper and then I'm going to meditate and think about, you know, the promises of God in this situation." And that really good. Yeah, I like that idea. I mean, because that's that's the whole point really, isn't it, Matt? I think it's kind of it's about doing something practical. It's very it's sort of flippant to say, oh, you know, don't worry about it. God's in control. It'll be okay. That's a kind of a flippant thing that actually practically um although that might be true in a lot of ways, we need to kind of um know how to deal with things actually practically and talking to other people about them, writing them down, thinking them through, praying about them if you're someone that prays or asking somebody else to pray for you. Um those are all really important things as well. I I really like the different takes on that in the in the little videos there. That was really helpful. No, they were really, really good. I liked how um Sharon's just put here in the comments, "Yes, I married Matt and his debts." Yeah, I I just pointed out it was me that brought debt into our marriage. Um Yeah, you brought you brought a lot to the marriage there, Matt. I did. I did. I didn't bring much. I just bought debts. That's what I bought. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, money worries are a massive thing, aren't they, for all of us? And I think, you know, most of us have faced that at some point in their lives. I know I I grew up um in a family with not very much money at all, but I've always seen through my mom's kind of um through how she behaved as well, that kind of knowing that God's faithfulness was in that the times that we didn't have money, maybe a£10 note, you know, pushed under the bottom of the door or through the letter box or that kind of thing. So, I've seen God's faithfulness in that. Um but yeah, that can be something that we really stress and worry about and we we need to get help in that situation. We need to tell somebody else. We need to talk to other people and share those worries. We do. And here's the thing about money. The more you have, the bigger the stress you get. That's my general consensus on life. I used to have this job whereby um I knew a lot of very wealthy people. And when I say wealthy, I mean the Times top 10 rich list. Most of them I had in my mobile phone at one point. Um I've flown on their private jets. I've stayed in their private houses, you know, their ski chalets and had private chefs cook for me. lots of stories I could tell you, but I can tell you one thing that's true about all the billionaires that I know. They have much bigger stress to deal with than I do. And um the amount of money they have kind of it kind of was this inverse rule. It kind of made me think actually it'd be great to have money, but I don't think it's going to solve everything. Um it certainly doesn't seem to solve everything for these guys. And that was one of the things that I learned from that. And actually, you know, there's a a wonderful piece of scripture in Hebrews where where he where um the writer of Hebrews, we think it's Paul, we're not quite sure, but we think it's Paul, wrote um he said, "Don't don't don't worry about money. Be kind of content with what you've got because God has said he'll never leave you nor forsake you." In other words, wherever you're at financially, whatever's going on, God is with you. And more than that, he is your provider. But like you say, it's it's it's very easy to say that. It's very difficult uh when it's the middle of the night and you're stressed to the hill, right? With all Yeah, absolutely. And I think probably as well with everything that's happened over the whole co situation with people perhaps you know losing their jobs or being furoughed or certainly you know you've got your own business and things that money has maybe been an issue and if you need help in if you are in debt and you need help then maybe get in in touch via our website and we'll be able to point you in the direction um where you can get help for that. So yes, there is trusting in God um for for that but also there is kind of practical help that we can give you as well. Yeah, absolutely. So um what do you think about this whole idea of God being angry? I mean it's it's not something we talk a lot about in the church. Let's have a talk on God being angry. But what do you think about this whole idea? I think if if we'd have kind of said this a few years ago, I would have really struggled with that idea because it doesn't doesn't you know I I just it's a god of love. God is a god of love and that's what really sort of speaks to me. And if you sort of say anger as well, I'd have always sort of thought, oh, you know, I feel very comfortable with that. But actually, it's Sharon's point, isn't it? And this is what I've come to understand over the last few years that you you have to get angry about some things. You know, there has to be anger in the world. Um, I've talked about this with my kids at school, you know, that actually anger can be a really positive thing. It can be a good thing. There's an amazing Disney film called Inside Out. Don't know if you've seen that. Such a great film, isn't it? That character. Yeah, that character. And we're so um, you know, we kind of worry about those what we would consider negative emotions and we sort of think, "Oh, I don't want to talk about those. I don't acknowledge those." But actually, they play a really, really important part in our lives. And um yeah. Yeah, of course. We want to we want to know that the God that we that we follow is angry about the things that we're angry about. It's angry about the injustice in the world. It's angry about um you know, even the news this week, the the awful things that have happened in the news this week that God is angry about that Um I think that's really important and it's taken me a while to actually understand that and Sharon just put it so brilliantly there. Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think it's such a good response, a good way to think about it. Yes, God is angry. Um just as we get angry about various different things and so yeah. Wow. Wow. All all great stuff. So um have you guys got any questions that we've not covered in the comments? I'm just going to scroll down here a little bit. Uh we're going to come to Nicholas question in just a second. Um uh so Matt's put here read more money stress. I don't agree. Fair play. Uh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is a black and white rule that more money equals more stress because it can be again I hope I'm not coming across as flippant here. Um and I think money is very important because Jesus talked a lot about money. He talked about money more than any other topic. Um and actually he has some very interesting things to say about money and we do need it. We do need that provision and he's on the case. Um and so do you know billionaires? Yes. Well I did. Uh I knew a few. I don't I wouldn't say that I know them now. Um, I think he offended them all with his comments about their their money. They're all stressed out, wasn't that? But there was a really there's a really interesting guy. I'll tell you this quick story. There's a there's a guy I know he's passed away now and I I loved him dearly and it's very uh it was very kind to me and very generous and um and one day he said to me cuz when you've got that amount of money, there's a lot of people around you who who are what we call yes men. Do you know what I mean? They say yes a lot. When you say something, you say yes a lot. And he said to me, he said, "Matt, you don't seem or he called me Matty." "Matty, you don't seem that bothered by my money." Uh, and I said to him, I said, "Well, I won't tell you his name, but I said, 'I'm not I'm not that bothered about your money, and I'll tell you why." And he said, "Why is that?" I said, "Well, you're going to think I'm a little bit nuts, but the Bible says the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous." I said, "You're the sinner. I'm righteous. It's all mine anyway." And we just we had a real laugh about this. Uh, and and we got on like a house on fire ever since. So, uh, yeah, he's a lovely guy. Miss him a lot. Anyway, um James has put a good uh question in there about what about when we feel angry with God? That's a really good question, isn't it? That's a topic in its own right right Yeah, I think we need a whole kind of afternoon just to chat about that one. But I think just to kind of say, yeah, God can handle that. It's okay to be angry with God. I think that the things happen in our lives, things happen in the world, and you know, God can take that. Definitely. What do you think, Matt? I think it's a great answer. I think um there are a lot of things which are confusing in the Christian faith. Uh like Trevor has put here in the comments like why doesn't God deal with the bad guys now and it's like why are certain things happening and we and we get and we can get angry about those kind of things and I think we can have questions towards God and I think God's big enough to cope with them. Um and I think actually wrestling with those is super important. um whether you're a Christian or whether you're not like someone, you know, you can say to me as some guy wrote in one of the comments, you know, why would you why would you wrestle with this whole idea of God being angry and loving? Um why why why are you a Christian? It's like, well, I have to wrestle with these questions of um bad stuff in the world. Whether I'm a Christian or whether I don't, I have to my belief system has a has to have an answer for this. Does that make sense? So I have to be able to understand why the world is evil or why the world contains evil irrespective of whether I'm a Christian or whether I'm not. And I and I have to know that and understand that. So um I think I think it is important to wrestle with these things. Uh they're not easy topics. They're not easy questions and there's there's not always easy. You can't go you can't tell me it's easy because Jesus in that garden was sweating blood and this was the most righteous man. I mean if anyone knew how to pray it was Jesus. But he was so stressed he was sweating blood. So it's not easy. Do you know what I mean? And it's kind of like I get it. I totally get it. But it's good to wrestle with it. Yeah, I agree. Good. Brilliant. Well, um, that's the first time. Yeah, don't worry. There's still time. Still time. Um, yeah. What was Nicholas's question today? I didn't see Did you see Nicholas question? Okay. Yeah, Nicholas asked a question. Okay, so let me scroll up here. Um, okay. Do you just want to explain why I'm going to ask this question to those that may? Yeah, sure. So, um, we do, you know, quite a serious question and and discussion after the after the talk. You know, we want to get into those kind of meaty deep topics. And then we like to bring it back at the end with a question from Nicola and sort of Nicola started it one day and it's now kind of been her it's her little slot now where she likes to kind of ask us one of the really deep and meaningful questions about life um just for us to have a little um chat about before we move on. So yeah, the deep theological question. You ready? Yeah. Go on then. If peanut butter was not called peanut butter, what would it be called? But it is called peanut butter. Yeah, I I get that. I But if it wasn't, um it always struck me that peanut butter was called peanut butter because it doesn't contain any butter. It's just peanuts. Peanut spread sort of blended, isn't it? It's just peanut bread. Yeah, I'd maybe call it blended peanut peanut puree. I'm going to have a peanut puree sandwich. Yummy. Doesn't quite sound the same. I wonder if they called it peanut butter to make it more I don't know, more more enjoyable. And why would I don't know. I'm going to go find out. Are you supposed to have peanut butter instead of butter? Because I always have butter and then peanut butter. Oh, no. You always have butter and peanut butter because it's too dry. Although recently I've been eating these um cheese kind of oak cracker things and just putting crunchy peanut butter on them and they it's a taste sensation let me tell you taste Oh yeah. Yeah. No butter just crackers and but you do have to have uh you like this. You have to have a glass of wine to help wash it down. I do. I'm liking the sound of that now. Matt, you're telling it to me now. Yes. A good glass of red wine washes it down. Red, in case you were wondering. Yes, red. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely not white. Uh oh, Matt's put here peanutella. Nice. Nice. Although Matt, I'm kind of wanting a chocolate element to that. You know, chocolate together. Chocolate peanut bread. Yeah, that's what he's put here with jammed. No, I think one of the things that you we we always mix chocolate milkshake stuff, you know, like the protein shakes with peanut butter. It is a taste sensation. Chocolate and peanut butter. My Josh My has peanut butter with cheese. Okay, we need to move on now because this is this is getting into the weird world of Matt Emonson that, you know, none of us want to go down that route. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's move on. What we're going to do now is uh we don't have a catchup video from Josh this week. What we do have is a catchup video from Imagine If. Now, imagine if uh just so you know, is a charity that we support and it does some part of its work, part of its outreach program is in the DRC in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Uh and if you've been following the news, there has been some real big horror stories coming out of the DRC. Um and there is a chap that we're closely linked with called Pasta, let me start again, called Pastor Alexander. Uh, and Pastor Alexander has sent through a video asking us for prayer. Um, and he's just going to give us a quick update of what's going on. So, I'm going to play this instead of the catchup video and then Sal and I'll be back in about 3 minutes or so. Dear brethren and sisters, I greet you in Jesus name. I love you and uh I'm happy to be with you today. But I wanted to give you h the prayer request for our place. Now the DRC Congo, not the country is now in the bad situation because of the war and the rebel group, the ADF rebels. 10 people have been killed yesterday at 40 kilometers from Casindi in Casindi road from Beni to Casindi people have been killed in the village and now in Casindi more than 20,000 people they are there without any assistance from the government they are there without any assistance and they are in a bad condition and Many uh children and women pregnant women they in the bad condition they become now the very very venerable people people what we need for you is to pray only prayer which can help us. We need to prayer for the peace to pray for God to intervene for this tip of of killing people to stop in our our region and also to pray for the assistance. The people the refugees they are there without any assistance. Secondly, we have the problem now is a pandemic, COVID and now Ebola. We have now in here in Bhut the Ebola cases and now it become the big problem when people there is a bad condition there the the lack of security again the Ebola come again here and now we have many cases of Ebola. We need also prayer to God to help us to stop this pandemic and the people to have a good life. Thank you. Thank you for supporting us in prayer. Thank you. Thank you for supporting us in assistance and for everyone we pray for Congo. We say God bless him and God help him. Thank you and be blessed in Jesus name. Amen. Wow. Wow. That's uh it's quite an intense video, isn't it? And um I appreciate the pastor Alexander sending that through to church so we can know what's going on. 20,000 refugees in one day. I mean that's you know mix that with COVID and Ebola. And oh my goodness. Uh it's kind it's kind of overwhelming, isn't it, Matt? It's um yeah it's it's really hard to hear that and think and just sort of to feel so helpless but actually they're they're asking us to pray and that we can do. Um so yeah if you are someone that prays then please do for that. I mean imagine if the charity Imagine if is amazing doing so much for people in this country all sorts of different groups of people but also reaching out across the world as well. So uh yeah that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that James. Yeah great. So, uh, do pray for them and if you want to get more involved, if you'd like to know more, check out their website, imagine ifrust.org. Uh, and, uh, I'm sure there'll be more information on the website that you can, uh, get involved with and help with. Right. Just a couple of things before we just before we finish, just a couple of things just in the comments. I just wanted to quickly pick up on Matt. I know we need to finish now, but um Matt Cox saying about um his mom saying um to ask Jesus to envelop you in his arms rather than just hold envelop, which is um a brilliant description, isn't it? I think we can all do with a bit of that. And then Sharon just really summing it up nicely. I've often felt angry with God and have wrestled with him expressing anger. Ultimately, God sees the bigger picture and I have come to accept that I don't understand everything, but I can trust him even when I don't understand why he does things or doesn't do things. Yeah, that's why God Yeah, absolutely. Ultimately, he's God. Yeah, absolutely. Well done, babe. Uh it's it's been a fascinating conversation this week. Bit of a heavy topic talking about the anger of God, talking about stress and all of those kind of things, but actually stuff we need to talk about. Um yeah, especially in today's society with everything that's going off, there is a mental health epidemic approaching. And so actually thinking about this kind of stuff and talking about this kind of stuff is so so important. Um I can totally recommend a book if you are struggling with this, if you want to know more. It's called Winning the War in Your Mind by Craig Craig Rashelle and it's available wherever you buy books from. It is a phenomenal book. Um I've started reading it myself uh all about how we uh take control of our minds with the help of God. So definitely do check that out. We'll be getting into it some more over the coming weeks I'm sure just because of where we are in Mark's gospel. There are some pretty um pretty dark stories coming up. So uh next week, what's happening next week, S? Well, you can't catch me catch me out this time, Matt, because I know what's happening next week because it's me doing the talk. So nice try, but I do remember that it is me. And uh it's another light and breezy topic for you next week. I will be talking about betrayal and abandonment. So please um join us for that one next week. Yeah, it's a pretty light topic. What why why did you pick that one? It was next in Mark's Gospel. It's true. It's the next bit that comes up. So, we're just tackling I love the fact actually as we're going through Mark's gospel, some of it is just really inspiring. Some of it's really interesting, but some of it just tackles some of the hard issues of life like smack in the face. Uh and um that's Yeah. And it's important that we it's important that we don't shy away from those things, that we talk about those things. Um and that's that's what we want to do here at Crowd Church. Absolutely. Bring it flack on. So, now uh thanks for joining us. Thanks for watching. Really really appreciated it. We've got a from Nicola in the comments. Uh Matt, great to have you. Thanks, guys. This made me weep listening. Thank you. Well, I hope it I hope it was weeping in a good way. I don't think I made any lousy jokes this week. Um uh Man United are taking to the field. So, Matt Cruz off. Okay. Yeah. Bye, Matt. Uh you definitely need prayer. That's all I'm saying. So, so listen, it's been great chatting to you. Uh thanks for joining us this week and thanks for everyone joining us on the live stream. Um have a fantastic week. Yeah, thank you for all your comments. Don't forget to get in touch with us via the WhatsApp number or the um or the website if you want prayer. But yeah, thanks for everything this week and we will see you next week. Yeah, absolutely. We will. There's the WhatsApp number. So any prayer requests do send them through uh and we will lovely lovely we will quite happily I don't know where that word came from. We will quite happily pray for you. What we're going to do now to close the live stream, we're just going to play some worship. Uh, but that's it from Sal and I. Stick around for the worship if you like. We'll see you again next week. God bless you. Have a great week. Bye. Have a great week. Bye. Let the king of my heart be the mountain where I run, the fountain I drink from. Oh, is my song. Let the king of my heart be the shadow where I hide. the ranso my life. Oh is my song. You are good. You're good. Oh you are good. You're good. you are good. you are good. be good. let the king of my heart be the wind inside my s, the anchor in the waves. Oh, he is my song. Let the king of my heart be the fin of veins, the echo of my days. Oh, he is my soul. Let the king of my heart be the on my way, the echo of my days. Oh, he is my soul. You are good. You're good. and you are good. You're good. and you are you. and you're never going to let never going to let me down. And you're never going to let never You're never going to let You're never going to let me down. You are good. You are good. You're good.