What Does The Bible Say About Being A Christian?

What does the Bible say about Being a Christian_ Matt: [00:00:00] Well, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt Edmundson, and beside me this beautiful, beautiful young man, uh, is, uh, the, the very right Reverend Ian. Do. So, Ian, how are we doing, bud? I'm very good. Just I ent that's fine. Now we like to embellish here on Crowd Church. No, no. Ian and I, uh, have been friends for a very long time. I think it's 30 years this year we met. Right. Uh, I know because Tony keeps going on about the fact it's 30 years since we met. Um, so I'm for a road trip. Say again. Ian: I'm for a road trip. Matt: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And if you are a regular two Crowd, you all have, you may remember a chap called Tony who's also been on. Well, Tony, Ian and I have been. The triad of mates for a very long time, since uni days. And so, um, finally we've got [00:01:00] Ian here, which is fantastic. Now, Ian, whereabouts in the world are you, tell the good folks where you are. Ian: I'm in the promised Land, which is London. Uh, I live just northwest, northwest London, so I'm in Harrow. Yeah, it sounds posh. It's not quite as posh as it sounds. I've lived in Kensington and Harrow both times. I've managed to end up in the, the non posh part. So no, it's a great place to live. Sun's shining at the moment. It all looks beautiful. Um, but that's where I'm northwest London. Matt: Ah, now apparently London is in the middle of a heat wave. Am I correct? Ian: Oh, sorry, I forgot. You are, you're probably wrapped up in jumpers and every now, uh, yeah, absolutely we're. It's lovely sunshine here. You can just tell by the contrast, Matt Matt's room looks dark and horrible and you know, bright sunshine where I'm Matt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. No mine. Yeah, mine's a professional studio. Yours is your back room, but that's fine. That, Ian: that's not good. Matt: So yes, Ian is from down [00:02:00] south. We met at the University of Liverpool. So, uh, you have lived in Liverpool and uh, uh, London. So I take exception to the idea that London is the promised land when I'm fairly convinced it's Liverpool. But there you go. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. Ian: Yeah. Well, that's fair enough. I mean, probably Jews would say it's Israel, but, you know. Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure that's very true. There's arguments either way, and, you know, we could, we could wax lyrical about that. So, uh, yes, it's, anyway, uh, if you are tuning, if just joining in, uh, do say hi in the comments. It'd be great to hear from you. Great to see where you're from. Uh, come and say hi. Uh, Crowd Church is an online church. We just do church digitally, uh, because we can, since lockdown we discovered we can do it and we can do it well. So, uh, Ian, tell the good folks who are watching what is gonna be happening today. Fantastic. Ian: Well, uh, what I'll be happening today is we're gonna be having a little talk, first of all, which is all, all [00:03:00] about what does the Bible say about being a Christian, and we've got the wonderful Abby Sharples coming to, uh, share with us. And then after that, we're gonna have. Worship song, which you can join into or just listen to. Uh, and then we'll, we'll be back, uh, chatting away and hopefully others engaging with us through the comments on your screen. And, uh, we look forward to responding to those as we wrestle with this theme. Matt: Yeah, absolutely. And for those of you who may be new to Crowd, and we know quite a lot of new people, watch every I was, um, I, I'm just gonna say this, uh, we recently launched the livestream as a podcast. Finally bizarrely as an online church, we've only just become a podcast. And in the last few weeks we've been as a podcast, which you can get on Apple and Spotify and all those sorts of. It's gone a bit bonkers, uh, a bit quicker than I expected in terms of downloads. But one of the things that I noticed today when I was looking at the numbers is that about 10% of the people that [00:04:00] download the podcast are in fact in Russia, uh, and also quite a few in India in that part of the world as well. So, uh, if you are listening to the podcast or if you're watching this and you are outside of the uk, a very warm welcome to you. If this is your first time with us, whether audio or video, as I said, we are an online church. Uh, we're an online church for those that might not see the point of church or for those who are just looking to figure out life a meaning and understand who Jesus is. Uh, I'm just looking at the comments here. Uh, Ian, I, I just, can I just clarify right here at the start, if I call Ian Digger, it's just because that's my nickname for Ian and it's very hard to call him Ian. I'm not gonna lie. Uh, 'cause I never call him Ian. I call him digs or digger. Uh, I won't explain why, because you don't need to know. That's just, just the way it is. Uh, and so I see here you've put in the comments that you've, you've called yourself a golden oldie, but, Ian: well, someone was asking, we, we found someone older than Matt Edmundson, which [00:05:00] incredibly you have. Yeah. Incredibly. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're not that much older, but I've got the no hair. If you had hair. Would it be great if I Ian: had it? It wouldn't be great. No. Well, great. But it's not bad. Matt: Okay. Fair play. Yeah, yeah. No, good on you. Good on you. Uh, so yes, Abby Sharples, uh, is doing the talk. And again, uh, for those of you who are new to Crowd, this is what I started say, sorry, got sidetracked. Uh, Abby has, uh, was part of the initial church plant actually, and so it's great to have Abby back doing the talk. She's been away for a while at university, uh, as she will explain very briefly in her talk. Um, and so yeah, what does the Bible say about being a Christian? This is gonna be Abby's talk. Uh, and as Ian said, as Digger said, we'll be back for Conversation Street, uh, after the talk and after the worship. So do get busy in the comments. Uh, I seen Matt Crew is very busy in the comments, uh, again, as Matt Crew normally [00:06:00] is. Um, and so, and I'm pleased that Frontline reception is now tidy. Uh, Matt, thanks for letting us know. So it's all good. We appreciate the heads up. So. I'm looking for the button on my pad. Here it is, right. Here's Abby's talk, Ian, and I'll be right back. Continue on the conversation and the comments. Uh, we'll see you very shortly.[00:07:00] Abi: What does the Bible say about being a Christian? Good afternoon everyone. My name's Abby and it's an absolute privilege to be with you this afternoon. Um, looking at this question of what does the Bible say about being a Christian? Um, I, little bit about me. I was part of Crowd Church um, a couple of years ago before I left, um, for university and I'm in Birmingham studying children's nursing. Um, but yeah, it's so good to be back with you guys this afternoon. Um, yeah, and let's dive into this question. Um, 'cause there's a lot of good stuff and I think, um, yeah, there's a lot that God, God wants to share with us [00:08:00] today, um, through this. So actually I'm just gonna pray before we start. Um, yeah. Lord, I thank you so much for the privilege of, um. This opportunity to follow you, this opportunity, um, to call on your name and say yes to you. Um, and I thank you for your grace and your mercy, um, and all that you've done for us. And I just pray that you would, um, speak to each and every single person that's, um, listening to this, this afternoon. Um, and that you would just whisper directly into their heart, um, what you want to speak to them about today. Amen. So what does the Bible say about being a Christian? There's nearly two and a half billion people on the planet who would call themselves Christians. Um, but clearly the kind of application of that, what. People think that means varies a lot. Um, so today we're gonna be looking at the Bible 'cause that's the only place that we can go to, um, to know what God really [00:09:00] says about, um, what it means to follow him. Um, and we're gonna do that today by looking at the gospel, looking at, um, what it means to follow Jesus through three different lenses. And I've heard this called the three-tenths Gospel. Um, and that is that we have been saved, that we are being saved and that we will be saved. So starting with the fact that we have been saved so often, there is a moment in the lives of believers where they make that lifelong commitment to follow Jesus. You know, they understand what he has done for them. They turn from their sin and they decide to follow him. So that might be a kind of one time decision or event, or it might be, uh, more of a process like it was for me. Um, 'cause I grew up in a Christian family, so as I kind of grew up and my understanding developed, so then my faith and my understanding of God developed, um, and from there I was able to [00:10:00] make a more meaningful commitment to God. Um, but when we commit our lives to Jesus and put our faith and our trust in him, something really special happens in the heavenly realms because the reality is we aren't just living in a physical reality, but there is a spiritual and heavenly reality that is far more real than anything that we can see or touch. Um, so when we make that commitment to Jesus in the heavenly realms, our sins are forgiven. We are made a new creation, and we are no longer separated from God by our sin. Um, and there's a verse in the book of one Corinthians chapter six, verse 11, which sums this up beautifully. And it says, you are washed, you are sanctified, and you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the spirit of our God. So this verse shows, shows what [00:11:00] happens when we place our faith in Jesus and in the work of the Holy Spirit within us. This shift happens in the heavenly places, and we are given that new identity of being washed, of being sanctified and being justified before God, which I just, I love that verse so much. Um, and the incredible news about this salvation and justification before God. Is that it is not based on anything that we have done or any good works that we could do. We simply need to put our faith and our trust in Jesus, the Son of God, and we are saved. Um, in the book of Titus three of us, five, it says He saved us not because of righteous things that we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. And there's another verse in Ephesians two, verse eight that says, [00:12:00] for it is by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not from yourselves. It is the gift of God. It's just let that sink in. Nothing we could ever do would separate us from God. When we repent and turn from our sin and accept Jesus and his payments for our sin on the cross, we are welcomed with open arms into his family. And we have been sealed by God's Holy Spirit into a new life and a new identity that we didn't earn to serve this living and powerful God. So that is the foundation of the gospel and the foundation of what it means to be a Christian, um, and how we have been saved by God. So the next kind of aspect, so we've just looked at, we have been saved. The next is that we are being saved. So when we make that commitment to follow Jesus, it doesn't stop there. Our walks with [00:13:00] God don't stop when we make that first commitment, but they continue throughout our whole life. Um, and the parable of the sower is kind of a really easy and understandable way of looking at this. Um, you've probably heard the story before, but it's a metaphorical story. Um, in the book of Matthew in the Bible where a farmer goes out and sows seed, which is a metaphor for people hearing the good news about Jesus. And it describes the seed falling on different grounds, um, different types of soil, and that represents how people respond to this good news. So I'm just gonna read a little chunk, um, from the story. So it's Matthew 13, verse 20 to 23, and it says, the seeds falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.[00:14:00] The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop yielding 160 or 30 times what was sown. So this story shows that our faith needs to grow deep throughout our lifetimes. You know, there are all sorts of things in this world that can be kind of pulling us away from God. Um, but actually this, this, um, parable is encouraging us to allow our roots of faith to grow deep throughout our lives. Um, and it shows the importance of not being choked by the worries of the world, by persecution, by our own sin, um, and other things that can, um, kind of hold us back in our, in our relationship with God. We need to let our roots [00:15:00] grow deep in him. When we become a Christian, we are committing to following God's way and being sanctified and continually molded and shaped to look more like Jesus in the way that we think and act and love others. The Bible also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That phrase comes from, um, Philippians two, verse 12 to 13, which says, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. You know, this verse, um, God is encouraging us not to become complacent in our faith. You know, it'd be so easy to make that commitment to God and then kind of drift off or kind of go about our lives and you know, let our lives take over. But actually, God's encouraging us. Work out your [00:16:00] salvation. Make the most of the salvation that I've given you. Um, let me sanctify you throughout your life. Um, 'cause all areas of our lives need to come into alignment with God. They need to come into alignment with, um, God's laws, with his ways, um, that he lays out for us in the Bible. Um, and he also encourages us not to be conformed or swayed by the world around us. Um, so another verse in Romans 12, verse two says, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. That by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. So while we're thinking about working out our faith in Jesus, it's, it's all through him. You know, we say to him, God, this is my mind. This is my life. This is my heart. I give it to you, transform it, transform me, [00:17:00] sanctify me, mold me to look more like you. Um, and we can only do that through his grace. That's, that doesn't come from ourselves, and that's what we need to focus on, that when we are thinking about working out our faith in Jesus, we need to always keep in mind that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith and our trust in him. You know, none of our good works can save us. The outworking of our faith isn't what saves us, but our lives being transformed is a byproduct of the work of God's grace in our lives. There's a verse in Ephesians chapter one, verse four. It says that God chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight like he chose us. That is just incredible. Um, and that is the viewpoint from which we need to approach our lives and our walks with God. That, [00:18:00] you know, we can't choose God and be saved by doing all the right things. But actually God chose us before, before the world was even created. Before we existed, before we knew who he was, he chose us to be His. And that really shows that we can't save ourselves. Like it's not based on, on our good works, on our merit, trying to work towards being good enough for God. No, he chose us and he works within us to sanctify us and mold us to look more like him. Um, so as well as our salvation being bought by God, he promises that we have been sealed and kept in him by the Holy Spirit. It says a verse in Ephesians, which I absolutely love, Ephesians one, verse 13, and it says, and you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your [00:19:00] salvation, and when you believed you were marked in him with a seal, which is the promised Holy Spirit. So we have been marked by the seal and promise of God to keep us and protect us in Him. So that obviously doesn't give us the freedom to kind of go off and do whatever we want thinking, you know, we're saved Now anything goes great. No, not at all. But what it does give us is the assurance that even in our weakness, even in the darkest days of our lives, in the most difficult trials of our lives, God is keeping us and he's preparing us to be with him in heaven forever. So that brings us nicely onto our last point, um, and our last kind of perspective from which we'll look at the gospel and that is that we will be saved. So if we have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are now [00:20:00] awaiting either his return to earth or wait awaiting being united with him in heaven. Um, and because of the reality of being in the world and all that comes with that, that can make our walks as Christians, um, until that day that we meet God can make our walks as Christians really challenging, um, and full of various trials so we can be facing different temptations. Um, health struggles, financial struggles, um, relationship difficulties, um, our own sin, our own laziness, whatever it might be. You know, our lives as Christians aren't always easy. But God promises that when we are united with him, all will be made new. And there's a verse in Revelation chapter 21, verse four. It says, he will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning, or crying or pain for the [00:21:00] old order of things has passed away. That verse just encourages me so much because no matter what we go through, no matter what trials you are facing right now, when you meet God face to face, he will make all things new. The old things will be gone and he will make you new and whole in him. Um, the verse that we looked at before, um, in Ephesians chapter one, just gonna come back to it and read a little bit further on. Um, so Ephesians one, um, verse 13 to 14. It says, when you believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit, guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession. So this verse is amazing because it tells us that the Holy Spirit in us is almost like a deposit which secures us until we meet Jesus [00:22:00] face to face and our salvation is complete. The Bible also warns us of the reality of what happens if we reject Jesus, if we reject the truth and decide to go our own way and live for ourselves. And it's not, you know, it's not a very popular thing to talk about or think about, but, but it's reality and it's something that we need to think about. Um, says a verse in Matthew 25, verse 46, and it says, then they, those who reject Jesus will go away to eternal punishment. But the righteous to eternal life, you know, deciding to follow Jesus and accept the payment for our sins. It doesn't only impact our life today, but it impacts our eternity. It is the most important decision that you will ever make. So that is the incredible reality of the gospel, that we have been [00:23:00] saved once and for all through Jesus' death on the cross, taking the punishment for our sins, that we are being saved, that daily we are being shaped and molded to look more like Jesus. And through his gift of grace to us, we are able to follow him and his ways. And lastly, we will be saved. That one day we will stand face to face with God and our salvation will be complete in him. So this reality of what it means to be a Christian is a gift and it's an invitation. Um, and it would be a missed opportunity for me if I didn't create that opportunity, um, this afternoon to respond to that. So whatever that looks like for you, whether you've been a Christian for years, um, but you just want to take a moment to refocus and realign your gaze on him, um, or whether you want to make that commitment to Jesus for the first time today. Um, I'm gonna say a Prayer. It'll [00:24:00] be on the screen as well. Um, and just feel free to pray this along with me. Um, just really making it your own Prayer, praying it to God. Um, yeah, feel free to pray this with me. Dear Lord, I thank you that you love me. I acknowledge you as a pure and holy God who is good and kind and faithful. I'm sorry for where my sin has separated us. And I repent and I turn from it today. I thank you for your gift of your death on the cross, which made a way for me to know you and be in relationship with you. I accept this gift of salvation today and ask that your Holy Spirit would fill me and help me to walk with you every day. Are men.[00:25:00] Video: God of goodness.[00:26:00] [00:27:00] Only. How great you, how great. How great you're, how great. You're, how great.[00:28:00] How great. How great, how great. How great. You only Jesus.[00:29:00] Only Jesus. Matt: There we go. Only in you. Jesus. Thank you Greg and Martha. Love, love, love that song. I play it very loudly. Uh, I'm not gonna lie in my ears. It's great. I turn the microphone off because it wouldn't be fair on Ian and just have a good old sing along. [00:30:00] Uh, Ian: please don't do that, Matt. I, I've known Matt long enough to know that it hasn't got any better in 30 years. Matt: No, no, no. It really is one of the areas I'm not, I'm, you know, I, I, I, I express a fundamental lack of skill, uh, in my life. It's singing, uh, but you know, the, the only person that really enjoys it, I think is God, uh, me and God. That's all that count. Joyful noise. And it is a noise. Yes. Uh, but no, thank you. Uh, thanks Greg and Martha and thanks Abby for doing the talk lot to get into there, uh, with you. My good friend Ian, and, um, go on. Ian: Great talk. Yeah, no, really, really great truth that I put in the comments, but I think lots to unpick as well. Yeah, I'm sure there's lots of questions. Kind of on what Abby was saying, it felt like quite. A lot of concentrated stuff there, so maybe we just need to unpick a little bit bit. Really good. Yeah, yeah, Matt: yeah. I think we all do because [00:31:00] it was very, uh, it was a great talk by Abby and there's a lot to unpack as a result. Uh, so I think we'll get into that. And some of the questions that have come in and some of the questions that, uh, come in on a fairly regular basis on the old email we are gonna get into in Conversation Street. So if you've got any thoughts, questions, or comments yourself, whack them in the comments below. Uh, and we will hopefully get to answer them. Uh, Matt Crew, Matt Edmundson can definitely not sing. I just, I feel like I need to, I need to get singing lessons maybe and resolve this particular problem. Uh, but yes. That's fine. That's fine. So my first, let's, let's get into this in, why don't you tell folks, right. Because people may or may not know my story, but let's start with you. Yeah. How long have you actually been a Christian? Were you, like Abby grew up in a Christian home, or was there some mad moment on, on a road somewhere? Ian: Yeah, I mean, I, I was like Abby that I grew up in a Christian [00:32:00] home, but nonetheless, I think there still was a particularly, there's a moment for me that it all became a lot more real. Perhaps it turned from being sort of black and white to technicolor or perhaps from SD into hd. And, um, yeah, for me, I was, I was nine years old when that happened. Oh, wow. So I was still pretty young. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and we were, we were off at the beach. Uh, whereby on St. Cliffs, and I just sensed this presence with me, this sense of real peace. And it was like, um, somebody being around me, and yet there wasn't anybody actually around me at the time, physically. Uh, and I just talked somebody else about it later on, and they just said, do you know what? I think that was God with you. And I just said, well, that's God with me. I want him to be with me for the rest of my life, and I wanna be with him for the rest of my life. And so I just said, Jesus, if that's you, um, I, I want in. And that, I guess that's that beginning bit, uh, that Abby talking about. I just, I want start now. Uh, I wanna [00:33:00] begin now. Uh, and I want to keep going with you right until the very end. Uh, so that was me, nine years old, uh, in Cornwall, uh, on the cliffs. Uh, just saying yes to Jesus, just saying, if this is you, then I, I want more of you. Uh, I want, I want. Yeah. The rest. Matt: Yeah. And do you think, have you found, um, I mean obviously you and I have met a lot of Christians over the years and everyone's story is different. Uh, everyone's got a unique sort of take on the whole thing. And I mean, just a shameless plug here. We are gonna be releasing a podcast soon called What's the Story where we do a deep dive into people's stories. Um, so do Keeper Your Eyes peeled for that. Make sure you subscribe to All Things Crowd and we will let you know when it's coming out because, uh, it is gonna be epic, let me tell you. So, um, and I'll just put on the screen there, the website, which you can follow along with. Um, everybody's story is different, right? And Abby said, um, at the start of it, she, she talked about making a lifelong decision. [00:34:00] For some people that is an event. Uh, for some people it is a process. Is that, have you found that to be true? I. Ian: Yeah. I, I think, I think it's always a process, actually. I think while people sometimes have a crunch moment, you know, for me, I had a bit of a crunch moment, but still, it's still been a journey. And I, I will talk to people who say I've had a crunch moment, but actually when you really talk to them, you realize that actually there's a whole lot of stuff going on before the crunch moment. There's a whole lot of things that led up to that crunch moment. So I, I, I kind of think it, there is always some sort of long process and I think that's why what Abby said here is actually yes, yes, there's a beginning. Yes, there's a middle, and yes, there's an end. But actually it, it, you know, there's so much to that journey and there, there, there's ups and downs on that journey. Mm-hmm. You know, it's, once you become a Christian, you say yes to Jesus. You know, I felt real sense of peace. I haven't always felt peaceful ever since for the rest of my life. Hey, you know, I've. Met, man, that took quite a while. Yeah. [00:35:00] Mess Matt: things right up. Yeah, yeah. Ian: You know, I, I've got married that was, that was great. Had kids, which is great, but also, uh, that throws you a piece of it as well. And so all along it, it's ups and downs and it, it's actually, for me, it's been about the process of knowing God in the ups, in the downs, in the highs and lows of life. Actually, not always at the time, but certainly looking back and going, ah, that's how he helped me. That's how he storm me through it. Um, so yeah, for me it's this whole thing is, um, um, I mean it's a bit of a cliche isn't, it's a, life is a journey, but it really is a journey. Matt: It is. And I think that's an important point. I mean, the, Abby talked about this, uh, three things. You have been saved, you will be saved and you are saved. You just sort of three stakes. But let's just pull back the covers on that a little bit because you, uh, you see this on churches a lot, right? The, the billboards. Um, you know, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. And they quote verses from scripture, but what does it [00:36:00] mean? I mean, Abian picked it a little bit in her talk, but let's, let's really unpick this now. What does it mean to be saved? Ian: Oh, that's a great question. Uh, that's a great question. I, I think for me, the biggest, I was gonna use two analogies in this whole thing. One is a race. Video: Mm. And Ian: one is a relationship. And actually, I, I think I wanna start with the relationship thing. At the end of the day, our biggest problem as people, uh, you know, and I think we feel is the thing that keeps me awake at night more than anything else, is if I fall out with another person. Video: Mm-hmm. Ian: If, if, if someone, you know has got really hacked off with me, or I've got really hacked off with somebody else that causes me to not sleep well at night. And I just, I can't wait until I get resolved with that person until we can walk it through, we. For me, the biggest problem we all have I is when we're out of relationship with the God he made us. That the God, he [00:37:00] created this world and, and actually, you know, that, that word we often talk about sin is just the stuff that gets in the way of our relationship with God. It's, it's, it's the things we do that are just going it alone, the things that we do. We're trying to live our own way, and it just gets in the way of actually saying, you are in charge. You are the one who's in control here. So for me, it, it's, you know, the problem is separation with God. So being saved is, is getting reconnected, getting back into relationship a again with God. Matt: Yeah, that's a very good answer. I, I, I heard a great quote from Andy Stanley, which I quoted last week in our parenting talk. Um, what does Bible say about parenting? Uh, and if you are a parent, check it out. You can see it at the, on the website Crowd Church. One of the things that Andy Stanley said, which I really liked, he said at the heart of every, uh, what was it? He said, lemme get this right way around. Um, at the, at the root of every transgression is a [00:38:00] broken relationship. Uh, and I thought, actually, that's a really interesting thing. Whenever transgressions are old word, it's doing something wrong. Fundamentally, there's a broken relationship there. So if you lie, there's a broken relationship. There's broken trust. Do you know what I mean? There's, there's all these sort of things that you, okay, that makes sense. And I thought it was a great quote. Um, and at the heart of, I guess, humanity is this story of sin or transgression, which is a broken relationship with God, which is what you're talking about, right? That's right. Ian: Absolutely. Yeah. So I, I think the sense of relationship being broke and then needing to be restored and, you know, even if, even if you haven't read much of the Bible, even if you start right near the beginning very quickly, you see that brokenness of relationship and then really the rest of the book is all about, you know, how does it get restored? So, you know. Mm-hmm. I mean, just to savior reading the Old Testament, it's a lot. Uh, and then the New Testament is all about how Jesus makes it whole again, and then how other people discover the [00:39:00] good news and the great thing about what it means to have a restored relationship with God. Mm-hmm. Um, that's, uh, that's Ian, that's its summary of the Bible when Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I'm liking, I'm just, I'm living the fact you've told everybody they don't have to read the Old Testament now. Uh, you do. You do. Yeah. No, no, no. So you, you talked about two analogies. You said you wanted to talk about the relationship and the race. So what was the race one. Ian: So the race one was, again, this, it's this idea that, um, you know, we've got three parts to it. So the first thing, the first question for anybody would be, are you even in the race? You know, if the race is living, really living life and living life to the full, you know, are you in the race? The, and I think, you know, you get in the race by, by just saying yes to Jesus. So that's the start of the race. The start of the race is, um, I'm actually on the track and I'm going somewhere. You know where you're going. So we can live life and we can not know where we're going. But once you know Jesus, you know where [00:40:00] you're going. 'cause the promise is once you've started with him, you will end with him. And, and, and yet you know where you're going. You're gonna end up in eternity, in heaven, in relationship with God. Um, and, and that the Bible says eternal life is knowing God and knowing his son, Jesus Christ. So again, it's all about relationship. Um, and then the next bit of the race is, well, I've started the race, you know, you, you know, in a hundred meter sprint, you know, the start is such a big part of it, isn't it? You know, you get outta the blocks quickly then fantastic. And if you go too early, not so good. Um, but anyway, you started the race, but then you need to keep going. So actually it becomes more of a marathon. And it's about how do we keep going? You know, life isn't easy. Life throws lots of rubbish at us. And, you know, people come our way and, and things come our way, which are, are not easy, and we get knocked down. It's a bit like stumbling in the race, you know, will we get up? And you, you, you must have watched some of those great YouTube clips where, you know, someone's knocked another athlete and they, they self, you know, it's chances of fire all over [00:41:00] again. Video: And he gets Ian: up and he sort of ends up ringing the nose, you know, how do you deal with life when you get knocked down? Video: Mm-hmm. Ian: You know, what happens then? How do you keep going? How do you keep focused? Then finally, wow, what must that moment be? And I'm not there yet. You're not there yet, Matt. But what's that moment like when you cross the finishing line and um, suddenly you realize the race is done and it's just celebrations here on in, uh, you know, and there's eternity to go. Last year I ran a marathon. You did. Bless you. I boy crazy fool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going with something and but that moment when you cross the finish line, it feels really good. Uh, and then you realize your legs feel really bad and heaven is nothing like that. Yeah. Heaven is all about feeling good and Matt: Yeah. You realize, but you made it. That's the main thing. Right. And it's really interesting, isn't it? This whole idea of running the race and it's worth pointing this out, just emphasizing this point, we are talking about what does it mean to be a [00:42:00] Christian. And what does the Bible say about being a Christian? And one of the things that it is worth clarifying because of western evangelical Christianity, I think we have to, we have to hammer this point home is it is not come to Jesus and your life will be fine. It's not come to Jesus and everything is gonna be okay. He's gonna give you a new car, a new house, a new bank account, a new partner, and solve every problem that you've got in life straight away. Um, actually, it's come to Jesus and he'll be with you in the tough times. Right. Not that there will be no tough times. And I just want to, I just want to emphasize that point because there, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around this very simple idea. And so I think one of the things that I've seen using your analogy as a, of the race when things get tough, I've seen a lot of people just go, well, I'm, I'm out. I'm out of this God thing because God didn't do dot, dot, dot. And it's like, well, hang on a minute. Let's, let's, let's reevaluate that a little bit. I don't if you've come across that in your travels in church. [00:43:00] Ian: I think that's right. I think sadly, some people sort of hear a message which says, sadly, maybe that someone said to them, or maybe they just interpreted it as, you know, life will be, you know, a better roses from here on in. And, you know, the Bible never says that, you know, it really doesn't. If you, if you read the Bible properly, it just said, you know, just says, I, God says I'll be with you. Video: Mm-hmm. I'll Ian: be with you. And, and again and again through all the hard stuff that people, you know, when people like Moses and all the others question God and say, you know what? How on earth am I gonna do this impossible thing you've asked me to do? God says, because I'm with you. Mm-hmm. You'll do it because I'm with you. You're gonna do crazy things, uh, and hard things and impossible things because I'm with you. Mm-hmm. So the idea of of of leaving the race and separating yourself from God means just you're taking away from yourself, away from the source of power and, and ability to do this stuff. Yeah. But we just. So, yeah. Keep going [00:44:00] friends. Yeah. If you are, if you are on the race already, keep going If you're not, get on board. Matt: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we've talked about what it means to be saved. The other thing that I thought would be good to mention, uh, I'll just double back on, is this idea of, um, what Abby talked about. Well, actually before I get into this, there's a comment here from Matt. He says, what's the worst experience you've ever had in church as a Christian, just talking about difficult times? Uh, I think that's a, a fascinating question. Ian: Yeah. Matt: I, Ian: I, I'd love Matt: to hear what Ian: your answer is, Matt. Matt: Me. I think there was a particular point, uh, in church when I felt quite disillusioned with church. I think Christians go through this, uh, and I, I was feeling. I was feeling very sort of disillusioned with church for whatever reason. Um, and mainly because I felt like church wasn't giving me what I wanted from church, if that makes sense. Uh, it wasn't, it wasn't helping me the way that I thought it should. And it, I [00:45:00] remember going through this and it was months and I was like, do I leave church? Do I go find another church to get involved with? What do I do? Um, and I just remember as clear as anything, uh, just felt like God said to me. Matt, I'm really curious. When has church been about you? And I, I was quite stumped by the answer because church is not about what I, well, it's not just about what I get, but it's about what I can give and about what I can contribute. And the reason why I think I felt the way that I did was not because church wasn't giving me what I needed, it's because I'd stopped contributing. Uh, because I think, I thought at the time church needed to give me more than what it should be doing. I don't get me wrong, church is not perfect. It is not full of perfect human beings 'cause I'm in it. Uh, but it, I, that was an attitude adjustment in me. And I remember, I remember that was quite a hard time. Ian: Oh, that's, yeah, that's a, that's a tough thing to [00:46:00] go through definitely. But yeah. Great. That you came out and you realized that actually maybe something in me needs to change, not just again. I need to just to change the circumstances around me. 'cause I, I do think that's, that's one of the things we slip into in any, not just in church life, but in, in, in life in general. Whether it's our jobs or our marriages or whatever. We, we kind of think, oh, if I just change the other person, yeah. It'll be all right. And, you know, actually, you know, normally we, we need to start here. No, you're right. My, I think my hardest thing, I think I've shared it already really, is is it, it's times those times in church when, um, I've just people, it's the people stuff when I've had, you know, conflict with people and it's, it, it's felt hard. Matt: Mm-hmm. Ian: Uh, and you know, that's been, again, that's been a little bit of them and a probably quite a lot of me and a, and it is sometimes having to go low and, and realize, okay, I just need to at least work on my stuff. Uh, and if they're weird to work [00:47:00] on their stuff, then actually there's a way forward it. Matt: Yeah. Ian: That's interesting. And that we can, we can, we can make it, make it back. Matt: It's worthless to say, 'cause I didn't say this at the start. Um, you are, in fact, you are a reverend you, you run a church, uh, in Harrow. You are a a you are a, we would call you a pastor, but, um, part of the Church of England, right? Ian: Yeah, that's right. So I've been at, I've been in this particular church for 14 years, so I know what it is to, you know, stay the course with a a, a church and, and keep going and, and see people come and go. Uh, but also see people, um, not like some of the stuff that I'm choosing to do. Us, to have conversations about that and us to find a ways forward and, you know. Mm-hmm. It's been great to see people who've, uh, you know, we've, we've not agreed on stuff actually come to a place of agreement or at least a, a place where we kind of go, well, we agree to disagree on that small thing, but we bel we believe the same stuff, uh, as the headlines. So we're still gonna keep going together. Matt: Very good. [00:48:00] Very good. So yes, one of the things you'll find about being a Christian and what the Bible basically tells you in a lot of places, uh, there's a heavy emphasis on personal responsibility. Uh, and you having to deal with, you know, the plank in your own eye before you start looking at other people. Uh, and which is why, uh, in a culture where, where, where we live at the moment, where actually we accept no responsibility and it's everybody else's fault, um, that's a very tough pill to swallow, isn't it? In some respects, actually. Yeah. But it's quite freeing, I think. Um, but it's difficult to do when all you do is blame other people, right? I mean, just look at our government over the last few weeks. I mean, just arche architectural example. Let's just blame everybody else. Let's not take any responsibility for anything whatsoever. Ian: That's right. You're gonna, you've gotta step up from the mark. And, um, while it's, it's lovely to hear somebody says, oh, don't worry, it's not your fault. You don't need to do anything. I'm sorry, but actually we do. You know, and, and things don't change unless we take [00:49:00] responsibility. We turn things around and, you know, as you say, Matt, the government is crying or the country is crying out for, for our politicians to take responsibility at the moment. Mm. And, um, you know, I hopefully, you know, that's, that is what they'll do now that they'll, they're hear that. I mean, for me, my heart were the people around where I am. There's a lot of people from Sri Lanka, and if you've seen in the news at the moment, obviously Video: mm-hmm. Ian: That's been rumbling on for a long time. Uh, and you know, a lot of it's in, in, in Harrow have been concerned for it and been praying for that, that country. 'cause we've known for a long time that they're not stepping up to the mark and, and taking responsibility. I, I just noticed, Matt, you put in the, the church is full of broken and hurt people and I just wanna say yes to that. Mm-hmm. That's absolutely true. Uh, and people sometimes call church churches hypocrites, because that's the case. I just wanna say, you know, the church, you know. Being part of a community of, of hurt and broken people is not easy. But if you know you are and you know you've got somebody [00:50:00] who's helping you, uh, find a greater measure of healing and freedom, then actually it's a good thing. And as long as we don't pretend that we're all perfect, then actually I think there's a real opportunity for us to, to find, uh, yeah, just find that restoration. Matt: Absolutely. So my final question, uh, 'cause it'll take a little bit of time to answer. Uh, I wanna, I wanna, I Ian: want you to know whether you're gonna do a marathon. There's a challenge here. It says, yeah, no, Matt: uh, the only marathon I do is the Snickers. Uh, and if you are of a certain age, you'll get that joke. But if you are not, then you won't. No, I lift weights. I don't run marathons. I've not got the build for it. Uh, just wanna point that out. Uh, and Zach, if he's watching this, would say, yeah, but you don't even really lift weights, do you, dad, let's be real. So, um, Abby talked about, uh, what she called the heavenly realms, right? This sort of spiritual world. Uh, and she used ideas like being born again, being a new creation, [00:51:00] and tying that in a little bit with this heavenly realms. Just expand on that a little bit. Ian: Yeah, I guess, I guess it's something that we all know is true, but it's hard to put our finger on, which is the physical world that we see, we taste, we touch. It's not everything. There is more to life than just, um, the physical realm. You know, if you were to try and explain love to somebody, you kind of go, I'm not sure I can explain that. Mm-hmm. In just my five physical senses. Uh, and so, uh, just that sense of the heavenly realms is a real, uh, spiritual reality that we can't see. But, and it, it, it is the place where there is real spiritual beings, both God, who is the ultimate spiritual being, but also we read about angels and demons. Uh, so these are real beings, but things that we don't see, but they impact our lives. Video: Mm-hmm. In Ian: the same way that love impacts our lives, even though we don't see it, but we [00:52:00] do things, we act differently because of it. And so the spiritual realms, the heavenly realms are about this real invisible reality, which together with the visible reality make up what is life. Video: Mm-hmm. Matt: Very good. And it is, well, I mean, it's an obvious statement to make because, you know, we all know that there is a spiritual realm. Most of us, even those that aren't Christian, would say, actually, I'm a spiritual person. Do you know what I mean? There is something beyond, uh, the physical. And so, yeah, what the, what, uh, Ian's talking about the Bible calls a heavenly realm. Uh, and it's this place where God and things reside, uh, in a sort of spiritual sense. And it's, it's quite fascinating. Maybe we should do a Bible study on what does the Bible say about the heavenly realms. Uh, Mac has written in the comments for all people born in the 1990s and later, Snickers used to be called Marathon Bars. Yes, they did. He explained my joke, Weldon Matt, that's, I got two Ian: words, April free.[00:53:00] Matt: We're just gonna go back and name all the sweets from the eighties that have changed their names. Uh, and yes, chocolate bars used to be bigger in the olden days. Uh, there's just debunk that myth. Uh, anyway, that seems like a good place to end, Conversation Street right there. Uh, so, uh, thank you for your questions and comments and yes, I think, um, just to sort of summarize things, this whole thing about being a Christian, if you are not a Christian, uh, I just, it's one heck of a journey. It is one heck of a, an adventure, but it is hard work and you do have to step up to the plate to use a baseball analogy, uh, to do this, uh, journey with Christ. But it is an adventure, uh, and it is full of meaning. And that's why we say, you know, Crowd Church is a place for those who are looking for a meaningful life. We. I'm sure digs you'll agree, meaning is one of the key things that you find in the Christian faith, uh, and the whole reason for life. Ian: Yeah, I mean, [00:54:00] like I said in my, my story, you know, for me one of the key things of meaning was the peace that I found. Video: Mm-hmm. You Ian: know, if, if people aren't looking for peace, I'm sure, I'm sure that's part of what they'd say they're looking for, but there's many other things we're looking for. But meaning peace, purpose, security, uh, ultimately love. Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All those things are found in Christ. Uh, all those things are found in Jesus and that's what we believe. That's why we do church and we just wanna celebrate that. That's why we sing songs 'cause we're very grateful for that. Uh, and we're grateful for the fact he's with us during the difficult time. So if you have yet to make that decision to become a Christ follower, maybe maybe start that journey. Like Ian said, it is a process. Just keep coming along to Crowd subscribe, keep watching, get involved. Uh, get, uh, email us. Get in touch. We'd love to help you, uh, with any specific questions that you have. If you're down in Harrow or near that part of the world, go see Digger. Go to the church. 'cause I'm sure it's [00:55:00] coming. Go and say hi. Go and join in because why not? It's a great church. It look your church because it's quite art Deco. It remi it, it, it to me feels like it should be in a Batman movie. Do you know what I mean? In the way it's designed? It should. Ian: Something like that. Yeah. Or yeah. It's one of these old cinema type style buildings. Or imagine Batman coming down the side of it. Probably actually one who's actually walking horizontally. Matt: Yeah. Not the new one. Uh, have you seen the new Batman movie, by the way? Oh, great. Yeah. Cracking really enjoyed, because that was mostly shot in Liverpool. Fantastic. And and that's why, why and your back that Yeah. Yeah. In my back room. Yeah. It's in the studio, in fact. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a, there's a joke in Liverpool about, uh, about the movie because it's called The Batman. Uh, and we, we all say it's because, uh, it was shot in Liverpool. Because in Liverpool you don't say, I'm going to Asda, you go, I'm going The Asda, you always put the word the in front of, so it's the Batman, which [00:56:00] I just think is hysterical. Absolutely hysterical. Anyway, uh, enough Batman jokes. So that's how you'll recognize Ian's church is you'll look at it and go, I could be in a Batman movie set right now. Uh, and so yeah, that in Harrow, so, uh, what's your church website? Why don't you give a quick plug for that? Ian: Yeah. Uh, St Paul's uh, harrow org uk Very simple. That's, that's where we are. That's where it's come and visit us online, even if you don't come and visit us in person. Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, it's a great church. Do get involved. So what's coming up next week is a question in the comments, uh, and next week the topic is what does the Bible say about baptism? And I'm desperately looking for my notes here. Uh, I think Al Marshall is hosting with Anna Kettle. Uh, I, John, have I got that right? Um, I'm sure John will correct me in the comments if I haven't got that right. Uh, and thanks John Frankton for moderating today. Um, but yes, uh, it is what does the Bible say about baptism? [00:57:00] And so baptism is a sort of the next logical step to the whole Christian thing. And so, uh, if this has been of interest to you today or you've not been baptized, you're definitely gonna want to check out next week's, uh, livestream. Come and join in with that. Uh, and then after that, uh, I can tell you what else is coming up. Uh, lemme just pull it up here. I think we've got Jack Marina, have. Yes, we have got Jack Mariner talking about Sabbath rest. What does the Bible say about rest or about Sabbath? Then we have at the end of July, the beautiful, I mean, pure beautiful lady, which is my wife Sharon. Uh, she's talking about loneliness. What does the bible say about loneliness, which is a question we get asked a lot, uh, on the old emails. August is gonna have a slightly different flavor, uh, to it. Uh, it's gonna be kind of similar to the live streams. Uh, but with a slight twist. Um, they're gonna be all pre-recorded. They're all gonna come out at the same time. [00:58:00] Uh, they're gonna be slightly shorter but pre-recorded, so there won't be any response to the live comments, but there will be talks and Conversation Street, uh, just so, uh, those involved in Crowd Church. Get a bit of a rest over August, and if you wanna know why we're doing that tune in to when Jack talks about what does the Bible say about Sabbath and rest. Uh, so we've got that coming up in August. Uh, then we've got in September, uh, what does the Bible say about mental health? Lisa Orange is doing that talk, who is a trained counselor as well as just a lovely, lovely lady, uh, real godly lady. Uh, and she's gonna say again, okay. Ian: So key mental health issues. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really, really is. So, uh, we've got that coming. Then to wrap up this series, we've got Prince Thomas, who is, let me tell you, an absolute legend of a man. Uh, he's doing what does the Bible say about itself? Yes. Uh, and that will, that will finally close. Uh, [00:59:00] digs, you may not know this, we've been doing what does the Bible say about, for like, over a year now? Uh, which is why it was written in the comments earlier on. If Crowd Church went through the Old Testament, we'd be doing it for 250 weeks. I actually think, Matt, it's gonna be longer than that. I think it'd be more like 10 years, the pace at which we go. Uh, so then we have a new series starting, uh, on the 18th of September called Origin. And I'll be explaining more about that in the future. Just a little teaser. Yes, it is. So that's coming up, uh, in September. So lots of cool stuff happening. What's going on in St. Paul's over the next few weeks? What are you guys doing over summer? We'll, we'll be going on Ian: holiday too. We're, we're looking at beautiful attitude at the moment. Uh, there's a passage, uh, in, uh, Matthew, the book of Matthew, where Jesus talks about some beautiful attitudes and how those things make us happy and content and fulfilled in life. And so that's what we're looking at at the moment. Matt: Yeah. Fantastic. Beautiful attitudes. Beautiful attitudes like that. Clever. [01:00:00] I see what you did there with the B attitudes. Yes. Uh, so that's it from myself and Ian. We are gonna end it there. We, well say, we're gonna end it there. We're gonna have one more song. After the song has finished, the stream will end automatically. Uh, thank you so much for joining us. If you're watching this on catch up, if you're listening to the podcast, it's great that you could join us. Uh, we do livestream every Sunday at 6:00 PM uk time. Uh, currently on Facebook and YouTube, there is some conversation about whether we should carry on doing that. Anyway, that's another story. But do come and join us on the live stream, 6:00 PM if you are able. Otherwise, just keep enjoying the catch up. But do get in touch. Let us know, uh, how you're getting on. And it's fantastic now that so many people around the world are tuning in, watching the videos, and listening to the podcast wherever you are in the world, God bless you. Have a fantastic week. Uh, digs. Anything else from you? Ian: Uh, no looking forward to catching out with you as well, Matt. Uh, so yeah, yeah, yeah. In September, been great. Been great to be on Crowd Church. Thank you guys for having me. [01:01:00] And uh, if any of you wanna visit our website, check the link. Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Send the comments below, John. Put it in there. So yeah, do, do that. Awesome. Have a fantastic week guys. God bless you, and we'll see you again very, very soon.