What Does The Bible Say About Children?

What does the Bible say about Children_ Matt: [00:00:00] Well, good afternoon and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Madam, and this week we are getting into the topic. What does the Bible say about children? We are asking questions all about kids. Yes. What does Jesus have to say about kids? What are kids like in the Christmas story? Do they have to obey their parents? The key question every parent has on their lips. We're gonna get into all of that when I say we, uh, today is myself, my beautiful bride, actually, Sharon, uh, Edmundson. Hi, everybody. It's really weird saying your name. I'm not gonna lie. Oh, no, you don't usually call me by my name. This is Sharon Edmundson. Uh, so welcome Sharon. Uh, it's, I can't do it if I call my, uh, beautiful co-host babe throughout, uh, the, the, the, the, the live stream. You'll please just forgive me. It's one of my [00:01:00] pet names for Sharon, and so only the other way around. Absolutely, absolutely. It's great that you are here. We've got Matt in the comments. Hey, Matt, how you doing? Uh, Sadaf saying Hey on YouTube as well. So if you're watching us on YouTube, welcome. If you're watching us on Facebook, welcome, make sure you say hi in the comments. Uh, it'd be great to hear from you. Uh, for those of you who don't know, Crowd is a online church, a digital church. And we're just here to learn about Jesus basically. Uh, and that's what we want to do. Uh, and so that's what we do every week and it's great fun. Uh, and today is the second time my bride has hosted with me. So yeah. How are we doing in front of the Christmas tree? Yeah, I was just thinking that I look really Christmasy and you look really not Christmasy about I should have put a Christmas jumper on or something. I've got my Crowd merch on today, as you can tell. Look, you could maybe borrow Zoey's like antler ears.[00:02:00] Maybe that's what I should put on some andler ears or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So, um, that would be nice actually. Uh, yeah, why not? Let's do that. Uh, I will try and become more Christmasy for next week, uh, because, you know, why would we not, why would we not? So we are, like I said, get into this whole topic. What does the Bible say about children and. Uh, Sharon and I were talking about this before the start of the live stream, weren't we? This is actually quite an emotive topic. Yeah. Which is, yeah. For different people, especially leading up to Christmas, because there are some people who would love to have kids who are not even with, uh, like a husband or a wife. They've not been able to find one, and that's quite difficult. Or there are people who've had miscarriages. Uh, we get letters from people whose kids have died, um, yeah. From, uh, kids whose parents have died. So we realize it's quite a tricky subject for a lot of people. Um, and we're not able to get into everything. [00:03:00] 'cause as usual, we've picked a massive subject. Uh, and we're trying to cover it in just a few minutes, but Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah, we are quite aware that, that it is difficult for many people and we just like pray that the Holy Spirit comforts you during the talk and during our discussion today. Yeah, absolutely. And of course if anything does come up, do letters. No. Now, um, and you can reach out to us via the WhatsApp number, which is on the screen. Uh, I'm gonna point to it here. There you go. Point it that way. I was pointing to it with my other hand, but I should do that. There we go. Um, uh, you can reach us via the WhatsApp number all through the website. We would love to hear from you. And of course, if you've got any Prayer requests, if anything comes up from today's talk that you don't wanna put in the comments, do reach out and get in touch and let us know. We would love to hear from you. Absolutely, we would. So what is coming up today, babe? Can you, um, can you remember? I think so. Today we've got Phil Watson talking about what does the Bible say about kids? And then we've got, um, a song, which today [00:04:00] is a Christmas carol, so we're getting very Christmasy. Uh, it's, oh, come, were you faithful? Check my notes. I think that's it. Um, and then we're gonna, um, have a discussion about the talk. Uh, so if you've got any questions, stick them in the comments as the talk's going on or during the song. And, uh, we'll try to get round to them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is that Absolutely. Yeah, that'll work. That'll do. I, I've nothing to add to that. Uh, very well done there. Uh, sweetie, that's very well done. Um, so if you are with us and not watching the Grand Prix welding you, uh, because I know some of you will be watching the Grand Prix, I'm not gonna lie. I have got the results coming up, uh, in front of me, uh, on my computer screen as well. So just, you know, if anything does happen out of the ordinary, I will let you know. Uh, but I think, uh, the whole thing has stopped currently as we stand. Uh, that's in a red session, but let's not talk anymore about that. 'cause that's not why. Good idea, right? We are in the, uh, I would like to say in the middle. I [00:05:00] don't actually know whereabouts we are, whether it's in the middle at the beginning or what. We are doing a series called What does the Bible say About, and this is where we look at what the Bible has to say about some of the big questions that we have, some of the big topics we've already covered, things like what does the Bible say about science and what does the Bible say about the environment, which was great. So this week we are carrying that on and we have, uh, as Sharon said, the charming and delectable, Mr. Phil Watson, uh, who is answering the question, what does the Bible say about children? So we will be back after this talk. Here's Phil.[00:06:00] Hi everybody, my name's Phil and I'm gonna be talking today about what the Bible says about kids children. Uh, I'd like to start off by telling you about a row I had with my grandfather. I'm gonna guess it was the mid to late 1980s Now, my granddad was born in 1901, so he was a Victorian, he was a [00:07:00] widow. He's widowed for about 35 years. He was something called a Presbyterian, which I've let sort of since found out means he was a Christian. He was just quite an angry one. I dunno if that's true of all Presbyterians, but he was. And, um, I wasn't a particularly easy teenager and I decided to pick a fight because on one Christmas day, uh, we'd been to church in the morning, that was pretty normal for us. And we'd sung away in a manger. Uh, you know, the song, you sung it at primary school. You possibly have been to church on a Sunday Christmas time and sung it. And my point was. That the little Lord Jesus, according to the song, no crying he made. I'm not very good at singing. Okay? I'm not very good on technology by the way, either. So if I'm looking in the wrong place, just get over it. Okay? Um, and my point was there's no way that if Jesus was a little baby and he was in a manger, which is, I understood it was some sort of, um, cow shed, so cold, uh, probably a little bit damp, possibly hungry, uh, cow lowing, whatever that is. I think it goes Moo. Is [00:08:00] that mooing cows mooing? Um, there's no way Jesus wouldn't have cried. I just, and I started to say this out loud and my grandfather being a certain man of a certain era Victorian said, you need to listen to me because I'm your elder. You need to respect me. 'cause it says in the Bible, respect your mother and father. And it is true. It does say that. Uh, and if I'd known my Bible a little bit better, uh, as a teenager, I would've been able to say to him, ah, it also says. Uh, parents might have got this verse a little bit wrong. Parents do not make your children angry. Um, the conclusion of this row was we just fell out and he was in a bad mood with me and I was in a bad mood mood with him. And we probably mired Christmas Day somewhat for everybody else, and I probably should apologize to all the other people who were there. Um, but my first point I wanna make is if you've got kids, maintain the relationship with them. Don't fall out. Over, well almost anything. If you can keep talking to them, if you can keep listening to them, you've always got a [00:09:00] chance of repairing any fallout or riff that you have. Um, keep talking. Okay. So anyway, in case you haven't worked it out, I'm recording this in sections 'cause I can't do a whole 20 minutes in one goes too hard for me. Um, hopefully continuity will work and if it doesn't, you're gonna have to just get over it. Okay? So it might be recorded over hours, days, weeks, months, I dunno. Anyway. A little bit more about me. I am a birth parent, so me and my wife have two kids of our own. We became foster carers about 11 years ago, and then we adopted one of our foster kids. I'm also a secondary school teacher, and I've done tons of kids in youth work in Liverpool, where we live over the years. Um, one of the things that the Bible talks about very much is, uh, looking after the orphan, old Testament, new Testament. There are so many verses. It would take me ages, take my all my time to go through them. The one that I like the most is probably in the book of James, where it says Religion that God likes is where we look after the orphan and the widow. Um, in the United Kingdom, there are 107,000. Kids in [00:10:00] care, something like that. Um, if you're interested in fostering, if you're interested in adoption, please get in touch with me. Even if you're not in Liverpool, it doesn't matter. I would love to talk to you more about it. I really think God's heart is for looking after kids who's got no one to look after them. We, we call them orphans in a very sort of loose sense of the term. It doesn't necessarily mean their parents have passed away Anyway, you'd have thought, with all my kids and youth experience, I would know all about children. And I'm afraid I don't, I get it wrong more times than I get it right. I think, uh, children forgive me if I've taught you. Forgive me if I've parented you. Forgive me. Um, my son said while wisely the other day, uh, well, I asked him rather bravely, stupidly fool. Heartedly, fool. Hard with fool, hardiness. Uh, what, what's the stupidest thing I've ever said? And he went, it's simple. The stupidest thing you've ever said dad was when you were in an automatic and you didn't know how to drive it, and you went, I dunno what I'm doing. I'm gonna stall it. Uh, apparently you can't stall an [00:11:00] automatic. I didn't know that. Uh, but he told me and he said, he said, that was the stupidest thing I've ever said, which I thought was quite impressive. Anyway, the Bible does tell us quite a lot about how to raise our kids. Some of the verses are cherry picked a little bit out of context in my opinion. The two I wanna talk about today are one in deuteron. I'm just looking down deuteron in me, six verses seven to eight, where it says to teach your children diligently to sit at home with them, be out and about with them wherever you go with them, teach them. And the thing that I've picked up from that more than anything is spending time with your kids. Um, and time where you are with them doing what they want, maybe where they set the agenda a little bit, not just being in the same place. Never waste a car journey. If your child, uh, whatever age they are, needs a lift somewhere. You know, take 'em, take 'em, chat with them, uh, hear where, hear what they're thinking, hear what they're talking about. Let them choose the music so you know what they're listening to. I've learned a lot about a pop star [00:12:00] called Dave, um, through one of my kids, absolutely fantastic lyrics, A real insight into what he likes. Um, don't, don't waste a, an opportunity to be with your children, whether it is watching their tv, watching their sport, um, playing games, board games, whatever it is, computer games. If you are not into roadblocks or Fortnite that your kid is, try and find out a little bit about it so that you understand where your kid's coming from, what your kid's doing. Um. Yeah, spend time with your children. There's another great verse in Ephesians four, that's in the New Testament, the new bit of the, the new bit of the Bible, the New Testament where it says, basically with your words, build people up. I grew up in the seventies and eighties where it wasn't very normal or traditional to say positive things about children. Somehow it would be make them arrogant. It's a bit about, you know, going back, my granddad born in 1901 to the very end of the Victorian era. Um, it was a little bit like, oh, you, you, you know, children are great, they're okay, but we don't want [00:13:00] them to have too much of a role. And I can see where they're coming from. Um, but at the same time, I'm not sure you can say too many positive things to a child about them building up their self-esteem, making them feel self-confident. Uh, the Bible uses the word edifying, which basically means Yeah, build up. Um, you're trying to create comfortable. People comfortable with themselves, confident about themselves, that they know that you love them and that if you're a Christian, that you know, they know that God loves them as well. Um, it really will help anybody go through life knowing they're loved. That's one of the things we've both learned, me and my wife about fostering an adoption is how many kids have absolutely no notion that anyone loves them and they've got a lot of evidence that suggests that no one loves them. Um, tell them you love them. If you're not happy telling them, write it down in a letter. And when they're old enough, give them the letter or the letters. Uh, I do that for my kids 'cause I'm [00:14:00] not always the best at expressing how I feel about them. So spend time with your kids. Try and say positive things to your kids. Now there's uh, kids have mentioned all the way through the Bible, there's a lot about children. Uh, one of the stories, uh, that I like the best, um, is there's feeding of the 5,000. I dunno, you might know it. So a bunch of people follow Jesus all day or they run out of food, or they didn't have anything to eat. There's no subway, there's no Tesco metro, there's no Es. Uh, and so they're all starving. And one little boy, um, I'd love to know if he was on his own, whether was he with his family, sort of says, I've I've got my packed lunch well done for being prepared. Do you think that he prepared it himself or do you think his mum sent it out with him? Uh, we got two teenage sons. I cannot believe that they would've worked out that they needed a packed lunch. Uh, but you never know. Maybe I'm, uh, I'm doing a disservice to this young lad who says to Jesus or the disciples, you can have my food. What a great sign of generosity. Um, what a great kid. Um, yeah, what a, what a great role model.[00:15:00] Fantastic. I'm sure Jesus would've sorted something out if that kid hadn't come forward with his offering of bread and, and loa and, and fish and loaves. But he did. His generosity enabled that miracle to happen. Um, yeah, never underestimate the power of a generous child. Um, there's another famous story, uh, in the Bible where alludes of kids are wanting to come and be around Jesus. Um, and it's a, there's a horrible archaic translation where it says, where Jesus says, suffer the little children, which is a really misleading phrase now, 'cause suffer means to, to ex experience pain. But in those days, when that version was written, it meant allow. So really what Jesus is saying is, allow, let the kids come to me. And there's a few things I wanted to say about that. First of all, in the time when Jesus is living, children are fairly marginalized. It's a terrible patriarchy. There's men at the top. And there's women and children somewhere towards the bottom. And orphan children I've already mentioned, and widows. So women without a [00:16:00] man are really low down and Jesus elevates them time and again to say, no, everybody is important to me. And everybody from the youngest child who has got no social power 'cause they're an orphan, uh, right through to to to to widows who would also have no social capital. Um, and Jesus was very good at including strangers, foreigners, people who are outcast. Uh, I could go on about that forever. It's just fascinating ministry of Jesus. But he says, let the people, let these kids come to me. I bet. Now I wanna turn that on its head a little bit and go, great. Allow children, let children, encourage children to be involved in whatever it is that you do, whatever church scenario you find yourself. But even in family scenarios, encourage the kids to be part of that. But I wonder what kind of man was Jesus that the kids. And the children, whoever, I dunno what, how old they are in my mind. They're kind of primary age, but maybe, um, you know, under 11, under 12, they wanted to be with this man. And I'm figuring, well, this is more of an [00:17:00] observation, but what, what do, what kind of people the kids wanna be with? Well, they like being with people who are, first of all, they feel safe with them. I think a lot of kids not all have a discernment as to who's safe. They wanna be with people who are fun and they wanna be with people who have got an interest in them. And I think there's a, a role model there for us all. It's Jesus. He's a good role model for us all to kind of look up to and go, right. So Jesus, um, I think he had a sense of humor. I dunno if he laughed. I know he cried. Dunno if he laughed, but if kids wanted to be with him, I'm figuring that he did. Um, I reckon that he had, uh, a real interest, which goes back to the time spent with children and the, the way he spoke to them, I'm guessing. With a degree of respect as in interest, and I think we need to make sure that we communicate with our kids in the same way. Okay. Well, I've raised my camera up a little bit 'cause I was looking back at the old clips and I realized I've got too many chins. So hopefully you won't notice them. Now, it's also a few days later. So I've got hair that's a little bit [00:18:00] longer. Um, I'd like to end by talking about a very famous verse from the Bible book that where Jesus says, you need to have a childlike faith to enter the kingdom of heaven. So to get into heaven, you need to have a childlike faith. This is the word childlike, not childish, childish. If you're a child you can be childish, um, but childish sounds a little bit immature. Sounds like you, you do silly things. Uh uh. You laugh at the wrong things, perhaps. Um, it's not the same as being childlike. And I'd like to, uh, give you an analogy, uh, uh, about what I think childlike means. So anyway, as I've mentioned possibly a few times, we are foster carers and one of the first kids we ever fostered came to us. He's about three and a half. He'd been with us a couple of days, and we were beginning to get to know him very, very slowly. He was extremely cautious and nervous around us, and he had very, very little language. And I took him to the park one day, it's only a few hundred yards. And we walked there and we got to the park. We were on the edge of the park and he was staring. And uh, and he went, what? That? And, uh, he [00:19:00] had said limited language. I went, oh, what that, ah, he means, what is that? So I was looking in the park going, wonder what it is? What is it that's exciting in this park? And I realized he was kind of gesticulating, kind of pointing at a tree. And I was like, ah, right, okay. It's a tree. This is a tree. And he went, tree. And we walked up to it and I touched it and I rubbed it. And he, he didn't do that. He was worried and scared of the tree. And then he tentatively put out his hand because I'd done it. And he touched the tree and he went tree. And he kind of flinched almost. 'cause you know, bark. It was a, it's quite a sharp feeling, isn't it? And he'd obviously never ever seen a tree. He'd never touched a tree. It just makes you wonder where he'd been for the first three and a half years of his life. And he spent with me 20 minutes patting the tree, touching it. We even sniffed it. He didn't lick it. Uh, I think, and we were looking at, uh, the twigs and the leaves. 'cause it was November that had fallen around the tree. And we looked at them and we, we sniffed them and we felt what they were like. And he had this incredible [00:20:00] sense of awe and wonder. I've never seen anything quite like it because I guess from his world, this was just amazing. This was unfathomable. This was incredible. Yet there it was. And it was tree. There was a tree we walked on a little bit further. Guess what? There was another dream. So we spent some time patting that and we didn't carry on going around the whole park 'cause of several thousand trees and we'd still be there now, but he put his hand in mine, little hand, and we walked home. And there's an analogy there about him trusting me and I'm not gonna pretend that I'm God or Jesus, but he'd known me enough. He couldn't remember my name by the way. He didn't know what to call me, but he was still trusted me enough to hold my hand and walk home. And um, and I just wonder if that. So it is an analogy. There's a lot that I'm gonna squeeze out of that. Um, which is, and in all analogies, don't bear too much close, uh, scrutiny. 'cause um, he, he, he could have had those questions, couldn't he? And I know I do about, well, where did the tree come from? Where did God come from? Um, why do some trees get ill, [00:21:00] you know, evil and suffering? Um, and I don't think that the Bible is saying that you, you shouldn't have an academic or an intellectual, a curiosity about all sorts of questions. You know, the Big bang, evolution, evil, suffering, um, you know, all these things are completely legitimate and you need, I think, to, to ask them and to try and find answers. But I'm not convinced that you'll find answers to all of those questions wherever you look, which is why the Bible talks about having faith and about trusting God. Um. I think if you went to court, and I'm not a lawyer, um, and said, is there evidence for the, for Christianity being true or false? You'd, you'd, you'd struggle to prove it either way in a court of law because it comes down to a matter of faith and a matter of, of like that little boy just, just seeing it, just trusting it and just believing it. And I'm not sure if that analogy will work for everybody, um, but it kind of works for me because I saw it and I [00:22:00] just went, oh my word. He's never seen that before. And now he's, now he's, now he knows it's true. Now he's seen it, he's seen that tree. Now. Um, I'm gonna end this talk with, uh, the last verse or the last line, which is I'm a child of God, which kinda links in with what I've said. Um, now I know I've perhaps emphasized, uh, some of this for people who have got children. Whether they're birth fostered, adopted, um, and you may or may not have children, but you were at least once a child, uh, to somebody somewhere. But the Bible says that we are all children of God. I firmly believe that the, the story of Christianity is for every human being. I think there's 7.3 billion of us on the planet at the moment. Every one of us is a child of God. Uh, if you wanna find out more about what that means and get in touch with Crowd Church, or if you're watching and you know somebody who is a Christian, ask them. Uh, thanks for, thanks for listening. Uh, I hope it made sense. Um, I enjoyed myself anyway. Oh man.[00:23:00] Great. Thanks Phil. Appreciate that. Appreciate the talk. What did you think to Phil's talk? Uh, if you are watching on Facebook, you know what Matt Crew thought to Phil's hairstyle, but what did you think to his talk? Uh, write your questions, write your thoughts in the comments. And we are gonna get into that in Conversation Street. But before we do, we're gonna have a time of worship and reflection. That's what we call it. But actually, this being December. This being Christmas, we are gonna jump into a Christmas Carol. Oh yes. The first one of the year. Yes. We're gonna do that right now. So we're gonna sing. Oh, come all you faithful. Now this song. In case you don't, uh, uh, know has gone, uh, pretty bonkers on YouTube. So a lot of people have been watching this, uh, song on YouTube. Over a hundred thousand people have now seen it, uh, which is great. Hope you enjoy it. And if you are here because of this song, it's great that you are, uh, with us at Crowd. I see a bunch of [00:24:00] people have joined us, uh, whilst Phil talks, were going on. If you don't know me, my name is Madson. I'm the pastor here at Crowd. It's great to see you. Great that you could be with us. I'm gonna be back again in just a few short minutes with my wife as we go through your questions, through your comments, uh, on what does the Bible say about children. In the meantime, here is our very first Christmas Carol of the year. Oh, come all ye faithful. Faithful, joyful. I. Come you to come and be born. The king [00:25:00] of angels come him. Come. Let him come. Let. Singing. Glory to God. Glory in the come. Let us him. Oh, come let us [00:26:00] him. Come the Lord we the. Born happy morning Jesus, to be your glory Father. Now in, let, let[00:27:00] the. Well, love that track from the mighty John Farrington. Oh, yes. And actually, if you like Christmas carols, stay tuned because we will end, uh, today's livestream with, uh, a song which, uh, Dan Pryor and Greg Schofield and Zoya, uh, Sharp's recorded for us. It's just a beautiful track and you're gonna want to listen to that. We're gonna play that, uh, in about half an hour's time and also next week. I've not actually heard it yet, but we have a new song, uh, A New Christmas Carol coming. Ooh. Uh, yes. And well, I'm, I'm not gonna say because I don't wanna spoil anything. I'm just gonna tell you that there is this track coming next week, which is, uh, by all accounts amazing. She amazing. So you're definitely gonna wanna subscribe and make sure you connect with us because [00:28:00] that is coming. What I can tell you, babe, is that, um, uh, Josh has done the orchestral arrangements on it. Oh, very nice. With Mr. John Farrington. So both of those talk to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it's gonna have brass and all kinds of, anyway. It's gonna be epic for Crowd. It's gonna be epic. Uh, Mark's put here in the comments. I need a mince pie now. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Merry Christmas to everybody. Uh, who's watching the live stream right now. Hope pure December and Advent is going well. Uh, as we said at the start, if you've just joined us, my name is Matt, and beside me is, uh, my beautiful bride, uh, Sharon, who I will probably call babe or sweetie as we go through the live stream, because that's just how I refer to my wife. Uh, so, um, yes, uh, welcome to the livestream growth. You are here. Now we're gonna get into this whole thing about what does the Bible say about children. We're gonna talk about Phil's talk. We're gonna get into some of the questions that we already have that have come in. [00:29:00] All that good stuff coming up in the next few minutes. So if you do have questions, if you do have comments, do write them down. We would love to hear from you. Uh, Matt, I can't see any of the comments or questions from, uh, my screen, so you're gonna have to fill me in. Oh, can you not? Okay, I'll, I'll monitor the comments. It'll be fine. Uh, Matt's asked, is the new song, uh, better than the new Elton John one? Uh, having heard neither Matt, I can't tell you the answer to that question. Uh, what I can tell you is, uh, yes, it is basically, yes. Um, here's the thing right now. Uh, you know, when Phil said in his talk, I dunno if you remember this, he said in his talk that in his opinion, you can't put too, you can't give kids too much positive praise. Mm-hmm. Which I thought was a really interesting statement to make because in my head, the first thing that I thought of was those parents who took their kids to a show like Britain's Got Talent or something like, you know, the ones, I mean, and they've gone, you have [00:30:00] got the voice, you know, of an angel. You will make Angels Weep, uh, when you sing on the stage in front of Cal and, and all those kind of people. And it turns out their voices, uh, well, they, the voice does make angels weep, but for entirely the wrong reasons. Yeah. And, um, and so I think that's what I thought. So there's this whole thing about giving kids positive praise. Um, and, uh, I guess in, I guess in that scenario though, the praise wasn't actually true, was it? I, there must be an element of truth in what you're saying, surely. Yes. Yeah, that's very good. That's very, very, very, very true. Yes. There has to be an element of truth in the praise. All, all truth, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just stick with truth. Full stop. True. Of course, that leads us to ask the question, what is truth? But that is probably beyond the scope of this week's live stream now. I think that's coming up in the new year, that one. Are you doing that one? I think so, yeah. Are you down to do that talk? Okay. Well I should look [00:31:00] forward to that one mate. Um. Me too. No, I do. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it is, uh, the first weekend of December, uh, as you can see behind Sharon, we've put a Petri, it is advent, it is Christmas. And at the very heart of the Christian story, at the very heart of Christmas is this whole idea that God amongst us, Emmanuel God came down to earth as a human being, but started that life off as a child, as a baby, uh, amongst us. And this is why we thought maybe this is a really interesting topic to do now. And this whole idea of Jesus in a manger, um, you know, wrapped in swallow Coke type thing. No crying he makes, what did you think to that? Uh, did you, do you, do you, do you think Jesus cried? I think probably, yeah. The Bible doesn't say he didn't, does it? No. It's just a normal part of child, of being a baby. So yeah, it is. I do think it's a pretty amazing thing though, if you think about it, that the [00:32:00] creator of the world. Who is powerful enough to fling the stars into space and all that other stuff. To come to earth as a helpless baby is quite incredible. Mm. Um, today in church we were singing the, the church we went to this morning, we were singing a song which talked about Jesus and describing him as being like a lion, but also by like a lamb. And I, it kind of, it reminded me of that a bit in that he's like a lion. That he is so powerful, but he's like a lamb in that he comes as a humble, uh, yeah. In humility. And you've got these two things going on at the same time. Yeah. Really interesting contrast, isn't it? Uh, Jesus was both man, he is God, but he also came as a baby. And it's one of these amazing things about the Christian story, about the Christmas story. Uh, Phil is actually obviously listening to the live stream right now. Hey, Phil, uh, thanks for doing the talk because he's putting the comments, kids sniff out fake praise. They do. Uh, they really, really do. Certainly our [00:33:00] kids do anyway. Maybe our kids are unique. Um, so Jesus comes as a baby. Now, uh, again, before the livestream started, we were talking about this whole idea of balance. So let's just address that issue. What do you mean when you, when, when you were talking about that in the kitchen, this whole idea of balance. Yeah. I think the, the Bible does bring balance into a lot of areas of life, but with kids, I think we can go to two extremes. We can either almost make them like God and worship them and they become our world, or we can go the opposite extreme where we think of them as nothing and insignificant and not worth it. Mm-hmm. Whereas I think the Bible brings balance to that. It doesn't let us, um, make kids our God because it's like God is meant to be number one before every other relationship. Um. But at the same time, it talks about how each person is made in the image of God, [00:34:00] um, and even talks about a baby in the womb and how God's God sees that baby and how it, um, how God knits together that baby in the womb. Mm. So, um, yeah, I, I think it, it, it helps us to avoid two extremes, um, but helps us to see kids as a good and a positive thing. Mm-hmm. Uh, that we are there to nurture and to train and to love. Uh, yeah, I think that was what I said. Yeah. No, that's, that's pretty much it. Yeah. That's absolutely, I think it's an important point to make because in the culture of today, there is this whole thing about the idol of kids. Do you know what I mean? And, and they've the worship and the idol of kids. And I, I, I find the whole thing fascinating. And when I, I mean, I grew up in the 1980s, you know, showing my age a little bit. Uh, it was very different I think, growing up in the 1980s to what it is now, and quite rightly so. You know, times do move on and things do develop. Uh, but I think, um, the, the way we [00:35:00] venerate kids now I think is very, very different to how it was when I grew up. And, um, I'm not saying we were always right, but I do think this whole idolization of kids has just gone a bit, I dunno, to me it seems like it's gone a little bit far on occasion. Um, so it's good to bring that balance back. Mm-hmm. And conversely, like you say, there are cultures that actually have no value on a kid's life. Mm-hmm. None whatsoever. And in fact, this, it's a really interesting thing, isn't it? At what point does value start and, uh. What is that value and worth you put on a human being's life? At what age does that begin? And it, it depends in different cultures, doesn't it? At what age that starts. And I think it's quite, it's quite sad to see. Um, so I think like, say on one hand God is God, kids aren't God, but on the other hand, kids are a gift from God, aren't they? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And seen as very positive. Yeah. Um, and as well, I think, um, in some cultures as [00:36:00] well, women are, are part of the worth of a woman is in if she has children. And then if you haven't got children, you can be seen as less than. But again, I think, um, especially in the New Testament, we see how uh, a woman's value is just in being created in the image of God, not through anything else thoroughly. And yeah, I think it helps to just bring a little bit of. Balance there as well. It's saying, yeah, kids are a blessing, they are a good thing. Mm-hmm. But if you can't have kids as a woman, that doesn't mean that you are less than somebody else. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, this whole, the one of the questions is, does the Bible say that children really are a blessing? I thought was quite a funny question. Um, sometimes it might not feel like that they are. I did think that was quite a funny statement. Uh, it says in Psalm 1 27, verse three, I'll put the scripture in the comments. Um, don't you see, this is from the message translation. Don't you see that children are [00:37:00] God's best gift? The fruit of the womb is his generous legacy, which I think is a really interesting way to put it, um, that, uh, children are God's best gift. Uh, I don't, I, I don't, what do you think about that? Do you think? Do you think that's right? Uh, well, if it's in the Bible, I'm, I'm going with it. Um, yeah, I guess it's partly down to words, isn't it? And, um, how it, how it's translated, but mm-hmm. Yeah, I think the sentiment is there, isn't it? It's, um, it's that kids are like this amazing gift from God, uh, to people. And I think as parents, um, when our kids were born. I dunno about you, babe, but I, my, I think my outlook on life changed a lot and I was very aware of this little bundle of life that I had in my hands. Mm. Uh and at that moment [00:38:00] I totally was convinced that that, and I still am convinced that they are a gift from God most of the time. I think I'm always convinced they're a gift, but I think at times when they were smaller with a lack of sleep, didn't always feel like it, maybe, didn't always feel like it. They're awesome now. Our kids are awesome now they're, they were fabulous. Oh, it's brilliant. So, yes. Well, our kids really a blessing. I thought it was a fantastic question. Uh, another question that came in. This is an interesting one and, uh, what we should have done in hindsight is got our kids onto the live stream. Um, is the, the Bible is clear that children should obey their parents. Is it not? Uh, so what. Now, the reason I'm laughing is because all the time my kids were grown up. If we ever did devotionals around the table, um, you know, and we'd pull out the Bible, read the, read the Bible, without fail. Quite often I would go to one of the [00:39:00] scriptures, which talks about how children need to obey their parents. Yeah. You only just have to open the Bible and they know, they'd know. I, i know what's coming. Now. Pull out that verse again. Yeah. Unfortunately with a glint in your eye. Yeah. Unfortunately the kids realized I was messing around. Um, but actually it does say it, it does say, uh, Ephesians chapter six, uh, one, three children, uh, do what your parents tell you. Uh, this is only right honor your father and mother, uh, is the first commandment that has promised attached to it, namely. So you will live well and have a long life. Now that's a loaded scripture right there. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, any thoughts on that? I'm gonna put that in the comments while you share your thoughts. Yeah. Um, again, I, I think when we need context for this first, the context of this is that the parents are, uh, are doing what their [00:40:00] responsibility is. I, I think the Bible talks about the responsibility of parents, but also the responsibility of children. Yeah. And responsibility of the parents is to love their children and to train them up in the ways of God, to lead them to God and to show him their ways and not to, um, aggravate them and not to make them angry, as the other verse says. And, and then it's the responsibility of the children to listen to that and obey. But there are many situations where you have parents who are not doing that and who are maybe being abusive or not, not necessarily abusive, but are teaching their kids the wrong way. And there is actually another verse in the Bible, which I found today, which, uh, it's in Ezekiel. Hang on. Uh, is Ezekiel 20, verses 18 to 20. And it's God talking to, um, some children and saying to them, do not follow the statutes of your parents or keep their laws or defy yourselves with their idols. [00:41:00] I am the Lord your God. Follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. So that's a situation in which the parents are actually leading their kids away from God and away from his ways. And in those situations, God's saying no. Um, the, your relationship with me and what I'm saying is even above that of your parents, um, I hope I've kind of made that clear and, and I don't think that's an excuse just to kind of, if your parents say something that you don't like, just to pull that out and go, well, I don't have to obey you, then do I? It's not about what we like or don't like. It's like a genuinely, your parents are telling you something very, very wrong. Um, yeah. Yeah, that is very good. Very, very good. And I think it's very, very interesting how, um, with the Bible you do have to understand the context of everything. So we are very good, I think, um, at taking a verse and creating a thought theology around one verse. In other words, creating a principle or a way of doing [00:42:00] it. Like we take a verse which says, children, you have to obey your parents. And we can create something out of that that is out of whack, that is out of balance. And actually when you read it in the context of scripture, there's a whole lot more going on. And I think, um, that's one of the reasons why we have to study scripture, isn't it? It's why we have to get into it and figure this all out and not form of theology based on one tiny verse. Um, you did steal my thunder slightly because although I would often quote to the kids, uh, children do what your parents tell you, this is only right. Um. Uh, in verse four, the very next verse says, um, fathers, uh, it's like, it's like it was talking to me direct. It didn't say moms. It just said, dads, uh, dads, uh, do not provoke your children to anger. And in Colossians 3 21, it says, uh, fathers do not provoke your children. Les. They become discouraged. And so I can't say that I've been particularly brilliant at not provoking my kids because, you know, why [00:43:00] would you not do it? Uh, it's almost like a sport, but I, I do get the point of it actually, that actually, um, it's quite, I think it's quite radical for the New Testament to talk about children are obeying your parents. But conversely, Paul is having a right go at dad's, especially in two letters that he's writing in the New Testament, going, dad, stop provoking your kids. Stop. He's actually given them some real clear and explicit instruction at a time where kids weren't seen as the most beautiful people on the planet. And so, um, I, I find it's quite radical actually in its treatment of kids. When Paul writes this. Yeah, I think, um, Phil did bring that bit out, didn't he? Mm-hmm. About the cultural background and where the father was the ruler of the home and everyone had to just do what he said. But again, Paul's bringing more balance into that, going actually, you know, fathers, you've got a responsibility to your kids that they, they don't have to just obey you, but you've gotta actually be good to them and, [00:44:00] um, yeah. Not provoke them. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, um, that's really, really fascinating because obviously dads, especially dads listen up, you know, and I know you can provoke your kids, so stop it. Right. And I'm talking to me just as much as everyone, it's comments in the, in the comments or our, our kids have been quiet, uh, throughout this whole thing. I, and I know, I, I know Zoe and Zach are watching it. I dunno if, uh, Josh is watching it, but I know Zoe and Zach are watching it, and I think they're just being quiet. Their eyes might be rolling here. Oh, dad. Um, we should have got them on the live stream. That would've been hysterical. Okay. So, uh, one of the questions which came in, what does Jesus say about children? So we've talked a little bit about the Bible and obviously what Jesus said is recorded in the Bible, but what specifically did Jesus say about kids? And Phil touched on this, um, a little bit, and there's a few verses, uh, that came out, um, where Jesus said, [00:45:00] uh, let the children come to me or suffer the little children to come to me, I think was the verse that Phil quoted from the Good Old King James. Uh, let the children come to me and do not hinder them for such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God, like a child, shall not enter it. Uh, in Luke chapter 18 verses 15 through 17, that's quite a, an amazing thing, uh, for Jesus to say isn. Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, I, I was actually thinking of a, a different point that Phil pulled out on that one. So, um, if you don't mind me going off track a little bit, he was talking about how, how the fact that children were attracted to Jesus and that children aren't just attracted to anybody and that whole thing of Jesus must have, he must have surely have been quite fun to, for them to be around him. And I think, uh, I dunno if anyone's watched the series, the Chosen, um, I think you can download it on your phone as an [00:46:00] app and it's free to watch. But I think that series. Brings out, there's a, um, like a one episode where it is most about Jesus interacting with children, and they do it so well. They just bring out that fun side of him. Um, but also just that, that kind of love, all the things that Phil mentioned in his talk, they bring out really well for the character of Jesus. And it was an aspect I'd not really thought about before, but it's like, oh, oh yeah. Yeah. And it just made, I was watching this going, I just wanna be with you. It's just amazing. It's a great guide to be around. Yeah. Yeah. The chosen, by the way, is, if you've not seen it, is a TV show which you can access for free on the web. Just Google the chosen and it will come up. You can watch it on your phone or I think in a web browser. And it is, um, a Dr. A dramatized TV series about the life of Jesus in the Gospels. And it's very, very good and definitely worth watching. It is a dramatization. It's not like. The, they have artistic [00:47:00] license, and that's cool. And I, I quite like that, but just remember that when you're watching it and it's absolutely wonderful. So. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I let the children go on. You asked me, I've forgotten what question you originally asked me now, but I've taken abstract. Well, Jesus say, what do you think it means? Uh, what do you think Jesus is saying when he says, um, I said to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God, like a child shall not enter it? I mean, that's quite a bold statement to make. Hmm. Yeah, it is. And it does make me kind of go, oh, what does that mean? Um, it could mean I think children have got quite, um, a simple faith in a way, haven't they? Um, when they hear something that they believe it. And I, I think in that sense, when we. If God's saying something, if we see what God's saying in the Bible, I think we are to believe it. Mm. Um, that's not to say that we're not to use our mind again, like Phil pointed out, the Bible also talks about, um, loving God with your heart, your soul, and your mind. So we're not to take on mind out, but we're to use it. [00:48:00] But I think there is, I do think that goes hand in hand with just that simple faith of, okay, God, you've said it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust you on that. I, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'd say the same thing. I'd say the same thing. I think it's, um, it, I quite like that whole idea of, uh. Being child, I mean, not being childish, but being childlike. Um, and sometimes you look at, you look at adults in life and you feel like they've lost the wonder of, of, of childhood. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, and I That's a good one. Well wonder, I think, yeah. The wonder of faith and the wonder of God maybe. Yeah. And I think when you're a kid, everything is just amazing, isn't it? And then as we get older, it's kind of like. Reality hits and we lose some of that. And I, and I, I wonder if Jesus is talking about that. Um, a little bit, but I mean, it's pretty clear to me that, that Jesus is pretty big on kids and he's, he's valuing kids and he is actually telling the society at the time that doesn't value kids too. Value kids and going, [00:49:00] listen, if you're not like these, you're not getting in. And I think it's a pretty big deal to his audience who were trying to shoo them away at the time that Jesus was doing this. Yeah. Uh, and I, I think that's amazing because, uh, Jesus did that both with women and with kids, and he continually validated people whose society shunned. And I, I just think that's amazing. Mm-hmm. I think that's amazing. Yeah. One of, one of the, um. I'm just going back to some of the questions that Phil asked, um, or Phil mentioned in his talk, one of the things that he talked about was Jesus, um, coming back to this story was that Jesus was a great role model for the kids because he was safe, he was fun. Um, and there was something else that Phil said, safe, fun, and he was interested in them. I think they were his, the three things. And so, um, Jesus was, you know, uh, interested in with these kids and he, he used this phrase, role model. And I'm kind of, and I think, you know, as a, as a dad of, with, certainly with boys, and obviously we've [00:50:00] got a daughter who I, I'm very intrigued into who their role models are in life. Who do they, who do they, you know, besides obviously mom and dad, um, but who are their role models? And I, um, I, I, I dunno, I, I thought I've mentioned this whole role model thing. What do you think about this whole idea of role models? Hmm. Uh, I, yeah, I think it's great to have role models, isn't it? Um, like, um, Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament in the Bible talks about like, imitating him as he imitates Christ, so that there is that whole, that we're meant to then pass along to the generations below us. Um, what, you know, what, what has been sewed into us as well. Um, yeah. What, yeah. I don't think I've got any more thoughts on that. That's fair enough. I, one of the things that intrigues me when people talk about role models and, and I, I have to ask myself am am I a role model? Could I say, like Paul said, [00:51:00] imitate me? Mm-hmm. Um, and I think one of the things that I, you become aware of, certainly I become aware of is people are very, um. They do watch what you do. Kids watch what you do, they watch what you say and they watch how you act. Um, and I think my, I'm gonna sh, I don't know if I'm gonna shame my parents slightly. I mean, my parents, my mom especially is wonderful. But my mom would often say to me, do as I say, don't do as I do. Uh, and, and I mean we all have those stories. Uh, and it was a popular phrase, wasn't it at the time? It was a very popular praise, uh, uh, praised phrase. Do as I say, don't do as I do. And I think you can't do that in reality because you are a role model and you are a role model toward the kids. And people do see that and they do watch you. Um, it reminds me of that phrase, it takes a village to raise a child. And I think, you know, the village sees or the kid sees how everybody interacts with everybody. [00:52:00] So the stuff that you do makes, actually makes a difference. And I know it's a silly example, but one of the things that I. I'm, I was challenged about earlier, early on, uh, was if I'm stood at a crossing, you know, and you're waiting for the lights to change, but there's a gap in the traffic, well quite often we'll just go, right. It's not, it's not a crime here in the uk. You just go, I'm just gonna cross. I'm not gonna wait for the car. Why would I spend an extra 30 seconds waiting? But if there's a mum with a young kid stood there at the lights who's trying to teach their young kid to wait for the lights to change, and I just wander across, I, it was just a silly little example, but I was like, you know what? I need to be a better role model. I actually need to go, you know what? The 20 seconds is not gonna destroy my life, but actually maybe I just need to impart something here to this kid that I'll never see again. Do you know what I mean? It's, um, it's an interesting challenge, I think. Yeah, definitely. So I've got, I've got a really, I'm gonna throw you with a little question here.[00:53:00] Okay. This question comes from Sadaf. Uh, and um, Sadaf is a friend of Crowd. She's a wonderful person. You're gonna see Sadaf in a few weeks time, chatting away. Sadaf, she likes her deep questions. Can't ask a normal question. Sadaf. Uh, so, uh, she is asking why does God say he will hold each generation accountable to the third and fourth generation? What does this even mean? And is the fifth generation off the hook from Exodus chapter 34, verse seven? So I thought, well, I've got the comments. I'm gonna ask you the question and let you answer that one. Babe, thank you very much for that one. It's a great question. It is a really good question. I feel like I would need to go and investigate a bit more, um, to see whether it is that God, uh, I guess my question in that would be, is it God saying that he will, what was the phrase again? Is it. Uh, he said, [00:54:00] uh, why does God say he would hold each generation accountable to the third and fourth generation? Okay. Yeah. What does this even mean? Yeah. I, is that come from the verse where it talks about the sins of the fathers will be revisited on the, I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm guessing the answer, my actual answer is I really don't know. But my question, my questions in my thinking would be, is it God saying that he's actually actively gonna do that? Or is it just a natural consequence that when we sin it doesn't just affect us, it actually affects the people around us as well. Mm-hmm. So that would be where I'd wanna investigate. Yeah, I think it's a good question. I think it also implies, uh, in that scripture that actually what you do matters, not just how I parent my kids. Now not only matters to my kids, but it matters to my grandkids and my great grandkids. And there's a knock on effect. And we saw that really clearly with your family, didn't we? In terms of. Um, you know, your grandfather grew up in the war. There were [00:55:00] things which happened that had implications and knock on effects, uh, in the family. And I think, um. I think that's a really important thing to think about actually as your parent if you are parenting. Mm-hmm. It's not just a one generational thing, it's not just 18 years and you're done. That's it. I'm out guys. Um, I think this thing goes on for a little while, so, yeah. Uh, just to bear that mind on the flip side of that, I think it, it is possible then to say maybe your family has seen the same patterns passed down over generations and generations. I think when we do come to God with that, um, God can turn that around. Yeah. So that it, he can like cut that off and we, it is like we start a new and then pass on a new thing to further generations. Yeah. I think's, absolutely think there's God's, uh, I think he's the, he's the God of redemption, isn't he? He and of grace and being able to turn around tricky and, um, and an awful situations. Yeah, absolutely. [00:56:00] Well, finally, uh, Phil said the, this phrase, be curious, and I like that. Um, for me, that's what childlike is. It's just being curious, having this, uh, wonder and awe and being curious about God. The Bible tells us that we are all children of God. So whether you like kids or whether you don't, you are one. Uh, and that's just the way life is. You know, we are children of God and he is our father, and that is, uh, an amazing story. It's amazing to think about all of this stuff around Christmas, you know, like we said about Jesus coming as a child, uh, and what that means and the implications of what that means. Uh, sad ass put here in the comments. Thank you. Uh, Edmundson. For, for not answering your question Well, for skillfully dodging that question. Thank you so much. Um, so that, is there time to, is there time to add something on the God being our Father? You, there's always time for you, babe. You go for it. Yeah. It's just, uh, I think in, in one sense, God is the father of [00:57:00] everybody in that He's created all of us. But in another sense, not everybody is experiencing that. And not everybody has, um, like God, it's like God saying he wants everyone to be part of his family, but we have the choice in that. Mm-hmm. So, uh, we have the choice to actually come into that relationship with our father or, or we can choose to be cut off from him. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's just an invitation. If you are somebody who doesn't have that relationship with your father, God, right now he, he's there for you. All you need to do is. Step towards him and ask for forgiveness for all the stuff that you know in your life and that, um, let him forgive you and bring him, bring you back, back into the family. Very good. That was worth waiting for finished now. Thank you. You can continue. Thank it works. I appreciate that. Uh, people may watch Crowd may think Matt, Matt leads Crowd Church. No, I don't. I'm just a manager instruction. That's, that's what [00:58:00] matters. Thank you. So, uh, babe, what have we got coming up next week? Why don't you tell the good folks what we have coming up? I have a note on it somewhere and I've lost it. Where is it? Can't remember. Oh, next week. Yeah, I've got it now. Uh, we've got John Harding talking about what does the Bible say about angels? Um, and he did that talk for our church where we meet in person this morning. Uh, it was fabulous. So do come along and hear that next week. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it because again, angels play a huge part in the Christmas story. Uh, and so we're gonna be talking about angels. What does the Bible say about angels? That's coming up next week, then the week after, we're getting into the question, what does the Bible say about Christmas? Uh, and you know, does it talk about things like Christmas trees? And were there really three wise men that came, uh, to see Jesus with expensive presence? All those kind of things we're gonna get into, uh, which I find fascinating. So. That's it from Sharon and myself. Thank you so much for being with us. Uh, as we said at the start, if anything's come up, [00:59:00] um, and you would like to, I'm gonna put the number on the screen now. Uh, if you would like to reach out to us or get in touch it, you can do that via the WhatsApp number or via the website. We would love to hear from you. Uh, we would love to pray for you if you've got anything you would like us to pray about. I know a couple of people have contacted us this week. Um, you know, some actually it tied in with, with what you said at the start. Uh, a fellow who contacts us lost his dad this week and we've been praying for him, um, uh, because that was heartbreaking, that story. And, uh, it's, you know. Thoughts and prayers with you. Uh, so if you would like to pray, uh, if you would like us to pray, please do let us know. We would love to hear from you. Thanks for being with us this week. As I said, we are gonna close out with Mr. Pryor, Mr. Schofield, and Mrs. Uh, I wanna say Sharples, but she's not Sharples. It's Williams, uh, Mrs. Williams, Zoya Williams. So, um, we have got, uh, a beautiful song to close out with. Thank you so much for joining us this week, and I can't wait to see you again next week. Bye for now. Bye.[01:00:00] [01:01:00]