What Does The Bible Say About Fostering and Adoption?

What does the Bible say about Fostering & Adoption_ Phil: [00:00:00] Fantastic. Oh, look at that. How excited we're like professionals. Hey, everybody. My professional. What? I don't know. My name is Fell. I'm gonna tell you all about me in a minute. Claire, you've not done Crowd Church before. I'm Clare: so excited to be clear. Well, the, the Phil: first minute didn't work very well, but that's not because of us. Uh, we've got a few minutes. Uh, imagine that the people watching this have no idea who you are, what you do. And I've just given away your name's. Claire. Tell, tell us something else. Well, Clare: I, my comedy name is Claire Glare. You can see it on the screen. And that is how I introduced myself to every, all in Sun Dream. My husband is slightly appalled. Um, but basically, yeah, Claire Glare. I married into it and I love it. Embrace the rhythm of life and the comedy. And so that's partly who I am. And I have, uh, with my husband, John, adopted two kids, uh, Naugh to 60, possibly Naugh to a hundred overnight a. Yeah, 5-year-old and a 2-year-old when they arrived. Phil: When they arrived. Okay. Walking, Clare: talking. Phil: Okay. Clare: Yeah. All the rest of it. And that was [00:01:00] four years ago. So, we'll, we can talk a bit more about that journey later on. But I also, in my normal life, I've started working now I do 15 hours of work a week, which I'm loving. Social prescribing. What's that? So that is, uh, basically people go to the doctors and they say, oh, I need help with me, finances and me houses, and me, um, feeling lonely and sad. And, uh, and the doctor says, I can't help you with those. I'll give you some tablets, but go and talk to this woman. And they come and talk to me. And, uh, and I link in with charities and organizations to try and help with those other things. That sounds Phil: like a Crowd Church, almost all on its own, maybe for another time. Well, if I, if I haven't ever come across you before in real life. My name is Phil. I am an adopter too. Uh, I've got birth kids that've been a foster carer. And if we are gonna use terminology or words that you don't know, we will try and explain them as we go along. We'll try because it, it is an unusual world that we live in where you talk about birth children, uh, [00:02:00] birth parents, um, sometimes the language is quite, it can be deemed to be offensive. So in our house we talk about when we manage, when we say the word dad, we have to explain which dad do you mean first? Dad, real dad, second dad, birth dad, other, other father. Clare: Yeah. Tummy mum. Phil: Tummy mommy. Yeah. Uh, Clare: or birth mom. Phil: Yeah. Clare: Or. Yeah. And the name of the mom often as well. That, and I really said it then, but Phil: my, yeah, my don't do that. My little rule or our little rule in our family is we try not to take offense. We try not to offend anybody, but we try not to take offense as well. 'cause most people, they, they absolutely mean well when they're discussing your family. It is a little bit tricky when somebody would say to our, our adopted son, oh, you're real parents. That's a little bit offensive. But most people don't mean that. No. They're just a little bit inept. Yeah. Uh, biology mother, tummy mum. Yeah. We have that. Just 'cause it rhymes. Yeah. Um, so, and uh, and anything else we need to know about you? Clare: Uh, I, I've made cake. So we've, we've, we've had some fruitcake. We've already Okay, there we go. I like cake Phil: and, and your outfit to be on Crowd Church. 'cause I obviously [00:03:00] come as a TV presenter from the late. Seventies, early eighties. I'm channeling a blue Peter. I didn't Clare: look point You didn't wear stripes, did you? Did it make me look fat? My favorite, one of my favorite rings. Which which is, it does make you, but you're doing alright. Phil: Okay. You know, don't worry about it. Probably beyond that. Yeah, just Clare: get over it. Phil: Thanks. I've drawn attention from fat, but I might look fat and you've told me to get over it more. Tune in for more. We so tune in for, we've known each other, what, 25, 30 years? 30 years. I'm trying to think if we could possibly offend each other. We could play that game. We, we could try. It's probably gonna be unlikely. So anyway. Yeah. What are you, well, I'm actually colorblind as well, so what? What do you look like? I'm Clare: dark. Fuchsia pink. Yeah. And then a pale pink underneath. And then fuchs. Yeah. Yeah. Nice little kind of kimono thing. And then my favorite little heart ring. There you go. Oh, that's fantastic. I'm wearing Phil: a stripy shirt because, and people seem to think I'm French and I will talk. There's another, I know we've gotta go to the preach the talk sermon in a minute. Yeah. But here's a great one. My, uh, one of my, my adopted son, I'll have to differentiate between them all. Yeah. He calls me at home. He [00:04:00] calls me Phil. Clare: Yeah. Phil: When we're out and about, he calls me dad. Yeah. So he doesn't want people to draw. Doesn't. Draw attention to the fact that we are not but DNA related. Yeah. We went on holiday to France. Ah. And we've been a few times and he found out that in France, Phil's are not called Phil, they're called Philippe. Oh. So he, when we went on holiday to France, he started to call me Philippe Fab. And then when we came back and we had croissants 'cause we're like dead metal past and Paris, he went, this is like France. So he starts to call me Philippe again. But only if we're having something that he associates with the continent. Clare: Well, but, and in Germany, farter fathers are all also called farter. Farty in our house is appropriate. Phil: Yeah. I don't, yeah, you suddenly suggested that you've your husband and it. He's not here. You'll never Clare: see it. Phil: Do you know the German for fat? No, we've go, we've gone too far because I'm stepped over. I'm a German teacher as well. Yeah know. I know that he used to be a counselor as well. You know, did like for, you know, for a city counselor. Yeah, yeah. For the Clare: Liverpool, which was wonderful and probably was quite similar to the job that I'm doing now in terms of bringing people together with [00:05:00] organizations that can help and support them. So a similar kind of. Wow. Thing that we all around Phil: good eggs. So if you've got a comment to make, Chuck it in the comments. Yeah. We are not the technical people, so if it No, we've got somebody with us. Yeah. Matt is over there and, and he does all the technical stuff. If you've got something, if you've got questions to ask, go for it. What we're gonna do is we've got a, another mutual friend of ours with Adam, him, a long time gentleman, brilliant guy, and I think we're gonna go to Adam's talk, which I'm gonna, I've also gonna say this role vt, which I think used to stand for video tape. Back in the eighties. Can I say our age? My age. Anyway, I'm older. Clare: No, no. Only about, yeah. Phil: Anyway, role vt. Let's have Adam and Adam's talk. It's gonna be brilliant. It is. Alright. I'm Clare: looking forward to it. Phil: Yeah.[00:06:00] Adam: What does the Bible say about adoption? Hi, my name is Adam, and it's my privilege to speak to you today about what the Bible says about adoption, as well as being a Christian. I'm also an adoptive parent, having adopted three and a half year old twins over 22 years ago, [00:07:00] and now with my wife. We spend time supporting other families who have embarked on the amazing but often challenging adventure of adopting children into their family, sharing our experiences where there may be of benefit to others. Our own adoption story, as for many adopters, started with not being able to conceive naturally. Some singles or couples may choose to build a family through adoption rather than pursuing other avenues. Some who adopt welcome children into their own unique situation of maybe already having birth children or stepchildren, or maybe having other children living with them. Who are not related to them, such as those in foster care, wherever the starting point. Christians who adopt are first and foremost responding to God's heart for children who are not in a family. Almost right from the start of the scriptures. We see the principle of adoption in play in the second book of the Bible. In Exodus chapter two, we read the story of Moses. He was born to a family of the tribe of Levi at a time when Farer, the king, had given the order to kill every newborn baby boy. [00:08:00] However, God's hand was on Moses' life, and when he was three months old, his birth parents hid him in a basket in the Reeds. Pharaoh's daughter came to the river to bathe, found the basket with baby Moses in it, felt sorry for him, and took him hi. Took him in under her wing and protection even more amazing. Farah's daughter called for Moses's mother to nurse him and even paid her for doing it. When Moses was older, we don't actually know how old he was, ER's daughter adopted him into her family. And he went on to play a very significant role in God's story. If Pharaoh had his way, then Moses wouldn't have been alive, but Moses was adopted into the King's family, and in the same way that we as Christians are adopted into King Jesus' family when we commit our lives to him. In Ephesians chapter one, verse five, it says that God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing Earth to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him a great pleasure. We are [00:09:00] God's children, part of God's family adopted by the Heavenly Father into his eternal family, through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Not only that, but this gives him great pleasure, which is amazing. In Romans chapter eight, verse 15, the word says that we receive God's Holy Spirit when he adopted us as his own children, and we can call him Father. This is an incredible promise to those who follow Christ and is a wonderful illustration of the power of the Holy Spirit in transforming our lives when we follow him. In the same way this has adopted parents, we have the opportunity to transform the lives of children who become part of our family. The Old Testament is full of references to encouraging the people of God to pay special attention to the orphan or those children who were not part of a family for whatever reason. For example, in Isaiah chapter one, one of the visions that Isaiah the prophet had for the people of Israel was very specifically to defend the cause of the orphans. In Psalm 1, 4, 6, it says that he, that [00:10:00] is, God cares for the widows and orphans. And in Psalm 68 we hear that God is father to the fatherless and that he places the lonely in families. These Old Testament references show us clearly that in those days, God's heart and plan was for children that no longer had parents for whatever reason, and though able to be part of a family and be raised by that family as though the child was born to them naturally. In many societies and cultures today, this is how orphans are expected to be cared for, usually by a close relative. So how has adoption changed through history and how might it continue to change in future in our own society? Here in the uk, we have seen many changes in policies and approaches over the centuries. For example, in the 18 hundreds, many orphans were sent to orphanages, which were often cruel and dark places. In more recent history, one of the biggest changes, particularly in the UK, is the change resulting from the introduction of contraception and termination of pregnancy. For example, [00:11:00] in the 1960s, many adoptions were relinquished babies. Where single mothers were encouraged to give up their babies in order for their children to have a better life and to grow up without the stigma of being an unmarried mother. These days, this is rarely the case, and the majority of children in the care system have experienced significant additional trauma, such as abuse or neglect, above and beyond the trauma caused by separation from their birth mother. In the present day, many systems of adoption are based primarily on the needs of the child, ensuring where possible that everything is done to ensure the best outcome for the child. In future, the focus is likely to be on preventation through proactive support to individuals and families before the breakdown of the family, which could potentially lead to an adoption situation. The work of organizations such as safe families is paramount to supporting families in difficult circumstances. Adoptive families now come in all shapes and sizes, but at the heart of this, at least from a Christian adoption [00:12:00] perspective. Is to welcome a little child on my, that's God's behalf, and echoing the words of Jesus in Matthew 18, verse five, when he was talking about how we can be welcomed into the kingdom of God. The process to become an adoptive parent, at least in England, takes many hours of form filling, probing, interviews, assessments, training, and lots and lots of waiting. But to be adopted into God's family requires a simple decision to follow Jesus, a willingness to submit our lives to him as Lord, and a desire to allow the Holy Spirit to mold shape and teachers. So what are some of the benefits of adoption? I asked some of the adoptive parents in the Liverpool Home for Good Group, which provide support primarily to Christian adopters for their views. These are some of the things that came back. Firstly, the children became. Our sons or daughters take on the family name and become heirs to our estate, which is many [00:13:00] parallels with how God sees us when we are adopted into his family. Secondly, you can make an unbelievable difference to the life of one or more children and can change their future destiny. Thirdly, you can provide a place of safety and nurture. Fourthly, you learn a lot about yourself and you grow so much as a person and particularly how to deal with people who are very different to you. For me personally, this has been the most significant one, and adopting has helped shape me a person more than anything else. Fifthly, being able to be a family and hearing little people call your mom and dad is an amazing experience. And sixthly, even when they're angry at you, it's a privilege to know that they feel safe enough with you to let you know their pain. And lastly, being able to give a child. The security of a forever family rather than the insecurity of the care system. However, what about some of the challenges [00:14:00] associated with adoption? I think we all know that not every adoption is like the glorified Hollywood blockbuster movie with the cutesy children and the happy ending. In our own adoption story, we were incredibly naive about how much and how quickly God would intervene and bring about change in the children. That became part of our family. Again, here are some of the things that came back from the home for good group members about the challenges. First of all, you'll be tested. They can be aggression, violence, destruction, and allegations. It's not an easy path to take, and I can certainly attest to that personally. Secondly, parenting children who have gone through trauma and they all have is really hard work physically and emotionally. Thirdly, some friends and family don't really understand the challenges and you can end up losing relationships. People often mean well with their comments and offers of help, but that doesn't always mean she's what is best for the child. Many children have additional [00:15:00] needs, and you may need to adjust your expectations and dreams for your child or children. Simply things you may take for granted with a birth child, like enjoying a holiday may be difficult or impossible for adopted children. When my adopted CH children were younger, I would often find it so comforting to talk to another adoptive dad, for example, to celebrate the success of something that would seem really insignificant to many others of my peers in work or church, such as making significant steps in learning to read, where many of those other families were already planning their university education for their child, and finally, you can end up spending a lot of time fighting for the resources or the therapy or the diagnosis or the funding that your child needs. It's like having another job. This is tiring, but it's also a testament to the commitment adoptive families put into their children to fight for what they need. So how as Christians, can we support adoptive families? Well, one thing we could all do is pray. [00:16:00] Pray for God to uphold those Christian parents who have welcomed a child from a different birth family into their home. Pray for peace and wisdom in those difficult and challenging moments, and for an outpouring of love and grace towards children who are often hurting to help them know that they belong in an earthy family, but are also part of God's family. Secondly, we can ask God how we can best help those around us, and also ask those families that were adopted or in the process of adopting what they most need. It may not be babysitting the child so they can go and have some time and space, but it may well be simple things such as cooking the family a meal so they don't have to, or going and doing some housework or the garden while they're out. And lots of other simple things that many of us can do. It gives the adoptive family more time to focus on settling and supporting the child into the adoptive family environment. And thirdly, help the child feel welcome and part of the family. This will involve some wisdom and guidance from the parent or [00:17:00] parents as how best to do this based on the child's own particular needs, but helping a child feel part of and connected to something bigger of which they belong can make a massive difference to that child. So what about the bigger question then? What is our response to children in need of homes? What is the Christian response to that need given in the scriptures that we looked at previously? Well, we all have a call on our lives from God, and God is happy to share those plans with us as outlined in Jeremiah thirty three, three. But that call is not the same for everyone. And that's okay for many, praying for and practically providing support to an adoptive family is all that God is calling you to do. But for others, like my wife and I, through prayerful consideration, talking and praying with others around us and submission of our plans of for our lives to God, for him to guide and shape, then maybe God is calling you to do more and consider adopting a child or children into your family.[00:18:00] First of all, ask God what his plans for you are. You may not get an audible voice or clear and immediate sense that you should start the application process straight away, but you may feel a sense of peace about your request to God and a desire to know more. If so, I would encourage you to do two things. Firstly, share your interest in adoption with others and ask them to pray with you as you explore adoption further. Secondly, find out more. Maybe express an interest in adoption with your local council, and potentially also with private, private adoption agencies. Speak with adoptive families to find out their experience, not only of the process of adoption, but also what it's like to be an adopter, the good, the bad, and the really ugly. And maybe do some research looking at organizations such as Home For Good that I mentioned previously, who support Christian adoption and fostering. As you go through the process, hold your plans lightly, keep seeking God through Prayer, the Bible, and through talking [00:19:00] to others and focus on doing his will. I hope this talk on what the Bible says about adoption encourages and inspires you to ask God to find out what your parts in this incredible calling and ministry is from the seemingly smallest contribution of simply praying. All the way through to the transforming the life of a child that you welcome into your family with an open heart and open arms. God bless you. And thank you for Phil: listening me because they're like proper scientists. Oh, I've got bad hair. They're like proper. Sorry, Matt Crew. They're like proper science approach to things. Absolutely fantastic. Yeah, we were talking so much inspired by that. But I've got to say that we're now gonna go into a time of worship and, uh, John and Anna Grace are gonna lead us with a song called How Deep is the Father's Love, which seems very, very apt. Um, we'll be back to do Conversation Street after this song. Thanks very much.[00:20:00] Video: How deep the fathers love vast. Beyond th he should give his only son to his how great the pain of as wounds, which bring many to glory.[00:21:00] Behold upon, upon hear it was my sin until dying. Breath has I.[00:22:00] Not boast in will boast in Jesus Christ. Why should I gain from his reward? I cannot give heart wound seven.[00:23:00] Why should I gain I, his wounds have paid my Phil: Okay. I think, uh, it's great. A very often, um, God is referred to as a father, which certainly for me, my experience, my own dad's brilliant. He's still ticking along Queen Spark Rangers fan, but other than that, he's, he's a great guy. Bless it. Um, and, and so when, when I became a Christian, when I was about, it was nearly 19. The idea that God was a father figure, um, that was okay for me. I was like, oh yeah. Okay. I get that. So you've got a birth [00:24:00] father or an earthly father. God's a father in heaven. He is a little bit different, but I understand that imagery. Um, if you've got any comments, chuck 'em in the comments section, but well try and answer. You'll, you'll find me and Claire will chat forever. Are you okay to talk back into the history of your Yeah. Decisions A little bit? Yeah. And why you got into adoption or even back further. Clare: Yeah, and actually I just as you were saying that, uh, for me, my father experience, he was completely absent growing up from birth. And, um, I see him now as an adult, but that was a long process. Process. And that involved, uh, forgiveness and knew who he was and knew where he lived, even. But there was, there had been no contact at all. Mm-hmm. And I, uh, I do, I often think now, uh, for my own children's experiences, they have had no, uh, no contact with their birth fathers. Okay. Video: Yeah. And, Clare: um, and, you know, so I, I'm able to, and I actually have shared that recently with my eldest, um, and she was like, oh yeah, um, I understand, [00:25:00] you know, she's nine now. So she's starting to understand a little bit more about life and how relationships and how all of that happens. But for us, me and my husband, uh, we got married later in life. Um, we wanted children. Um, we, uh, I had a miscarriage early on in our marriage. Uh, sadly, very commonly. I know that people have talked about that, um, previously on Crowd Church. And, um, and I think, um. That, uh, I was actually a city counselor and I, I was in a meeting, I was in education select committee one night, and then we had a presentation by the adoption team, I think, or the looked after children team, um, in the city council and they said something like 1500 children Video: Yeah. Clare: Needing, uh, you know, adoption, fostering. And I texted my husband in a meeting, probably shouldn't have done that. And, um, and I said, love, shall we adopt? And he was like, before the meeting had done, did, he was like, yeah, [00:26:00] go on then. And so that was, that was great. That was the start of our journey. Uh, we knew people like Adam and Joe, Phil and Helena, um, who'd already gone ahead of us. So we, I think we talked to you guys actually about, a little bit more about the process. We went along to the council and talked to them about how it would work and, um, and the, the, the process, like Adam said was quite formal, but it was quite quick six. You know, some social worker asking me, asking us very detailed questions about, you know, what are your parenting plans? Or, you know, how do you feel about hitting your children? And things like that. Um, the answer, we, we don't. Um, and so, um, so yes, that was all quite easy, but then that process for us of waiting for our children to come home or to come and live with us, um, was about two and a half years. And for me was, so, hang Phil: on. So you've got, yeah. I'm gonna use a technical term. Go on. You got approved to adopt. We did. And that [00:27:00] is, I mean, not big tick. It is a long process. Yeah. Well, I mean, six months. Yeah. And then a group of people who don't know you Clare: Yeah. Read all your paperwork. They read Phil: all your paperwork, and then you have to go to something called a panel. Yeah. Where, which is about eight, nine people that sit around a room and they, the, the thing they tell you is, and I've been on a panel. Don't be worried. Don't be afraid. They're Clare: all, they all like you as Phil: eight people are staring at you, and then they ask you questions about yourself. They've read all about you. Yeah. They know your history. Yeah. Then they say, we think you are approved to adopt. Video: Yeah. Phil: And then there's a waiting process. Clare: Yeah. Yeah. Phil: How does that actually work? Clare: Well, I am, without being too negative, forgive me if I'm, yeah. I used to call it the database of doom and, um, and basically, uh, it's, it's a website of children who need to be adopted and I had to steal myself. Um, it was me, John didn't do it right. I, and, and I had to steal myself to look through this a bit like internet dating in a kind of weird. Nasty [00:28:00] way. And, um, not there's anything wrong with internet data. You're taking a Phil: hole, keep going. It's alright. Clare: And so, so basically it's Phil: like looking for a secondhand car that's nearly as bad. Alright, go. Anyway, Clare: so yes. And so we did that and actually we didn't find, we found kids, but they weren't suitable. Who knows why. Never really could understand how it all worked. But eventually we um, we were matched with these two beautiful children, a boy and a girl, and they were, you know, five and two. Phil: Are they full siblings? Full? They both And sister or is that not appropriate? Yeah, that's Clare: probably their story really. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Goodness. Yeah. So that's a good answer. And actually. They wouldn't fully know that story. Okay. Um, certainly the youngest one yet. Um, and so, um, but yeah, so they are, they are, um, they are brother and sister. Yeah. And, um, and we, they came to live with us four years ago and it has been a roller coaster, so, um, [00:29:00] and I think Adam's right in what he said that thing about it. You being changed and challenged. Your relationship with your partner is massively tested. You think you've talked about these things? Yeah. Ad nauseum. Well, I like that word. It's gonna a bit Latin. Throw that into the equation. We, um, and, um, and yeah. Yeah. You still have to have those conversations about, you know, no, we need to have a limit on the iPad a bit. Phil: Yeah. Yeah. It, it, I mean, I can say this 'cause I'm a birth parent as well. It's like. It's like birth parenting. There is such a thing, but also it isn't. So our story's a little bit different from yours. It's okay to interject, which is so me, my, me and my wife, we got married, we, uh, had two birth kids, just like lots of other people. Yeah. Um, and we look like the most, we live in a semi detached house with pebble dash trees, outside garden trees. We've got one of those plastic things that you put compost in. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. We've got one of those. Well, you know, but we live Video: in a erritory. Okay. Phil: What I'm saying, I suppose what [00:30:00] I'm trying to give you this image of very normal respectability. Yeah. My wife was a solicitor for the council. Yeah. And I'm a teacher some of the time. Uh, and one day my wife said, shall we foster? Mm-hmm. Now, people often confuse fostering adoption and they look similar, but then they're actually not. So what we did, um, was we decided to foster and fosters, when you look after a child that hasn't got a safe place to go to, so you are, we are something called mainstream foster carers. Putting, I'm gonna be very generalized here, but when a child can't live. With their birth mom and dad. And it could be for something to do with mental health reasons. There could be alcohol or drugs, there could be violence, there could be somebody in prison, could just be illness. You know, you get ill and you don't have an extended family for a child to go to. And the first thing that the social workers will do on behalf of all of us, 'cause they represent us, is they'll try and find an auntie or a cousin or a nan or somebody. And that's sometimes called kinship. It's called kinship. It used to be called kinship. Yeah. Now we tend to call it family and [00:31:00] friends or connected carers. Yeah. Different terminology, different names. I hope that all makes sense. If so, John Lennon, there's good example. Local letter. John Lenn from Liverpool. Yeah. His mum and dad couldn't look after him. Mental health issues. Drug and alcohol problems. Mm-hmm. So Auntie Mimi, his mom's sister, I think Auntie Yeah. Said I'll take him in. And basically John Lennon went to live with Auntie Mimi. Nowadays we would call that family and friends, foster care or kinship care. If there is no Auntie Mimi, you go into mainstream foster care. Yeah. And the number of children in mainstream. Care in, in England is about, is about 83,000. So if you imagine a Wembley football stadium, they'd fill it. It's a lot of children. Um, and those children go into foster care and they are looked after by foster carers. Yeah. And that can be people like our family. So in our situation, it was me and my wife, two birth kids, and we, we took in extra children, but, and Clare: your kids had to be okay with that. They were included exactly. In your approval. Really? Phil: This is so weird. Our birth kids, we've got a few questions come in. You read that? I'll keep chatting. You read down because [00:32:00] can you multitask? I'm trying anyway, so I'm Oh, well done. Are birth kids, uh, were five and seven when we started to foster, which is relatively young. But yeah. So they've grown up thinking, I don't think they think it's normal. They just think it's what we do. Um, John Lennon did not perform, not Justin. He did unofficially here. He performed, I suppose he was in video with, with Mac ever. Anyway, um, so we started to foster, um, so there's a lot of children in care in, in, in, in Liverpool, but also across the country and across the globe. And we went through and not a dissimilar process where we found out about fostering. We went to our council, they ran drop in events. Yeah. Information evenings. Yeah. And wherever you are, your council will, I would recommend as the first port called just Google where you live and fostering. So Liverpool fostering, may I have it on Bosses and everything? You'll find a picture of me because I work for fostering services in Liverpool. Yeah. Where, you know, and um, then you will find out a little bit more about it. And then you can apply and a social worker will come round to your house Probably. Yeah. And fill in, they call it a [00:33:00] form, but it is, it's more like a book. Uh, it's like a hundred pages long on who are you, why do you want to do this? And you have to do police checks, medical checks have to do, you have to do training. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Well there's quite an, the police checks. The police checked. Yeah. Oh, they went on and on. Oh, they, they sped up now. 'cause they realized you can do it on the internet, which is quicker than posting. But anyway, I think Clare: it got stuck on somebody's death in our life. It's, Phil: it's, it's, it can seem like a long process. Yeah. Then we got like a adoption. We get approved to foster. Yeah. And then you are waiting for these for phone calls. Yeah. And you get a phone call from a social worker saying, hi, uh, could you look after a 3-year-old or a 5-year-old? And you can give a vague idea of what age you'd like to foster. Um, and you could say, oh, we think, 'cause we've got, you know, we've got more experience with boys or girls. But, you know, we are a very, I don't wanna say traditional 'cause that works anymore. We are a mom, dad, two birth kids. But you can be single. You can be, there's no top age. You can as long as you're over 21. Yeah. You know, for fostering [00:34:00] it's. It's find out, find out from your council. Yeah. Um, whether, whether you are in, if you are interested. And since we, we've been, when did we get approved? That's what it's called. We are approved to foster. Um, I think we have had a massive total of seven, so not many foster kids. And people always go, what is the hundreds? And you go, because, well, we kept one. Clare: Yeah. Phil: And you, Clare: you and, and, and your journey. There will be people in Liverpool who've, who've I think I've read about somebody who's hundred, 250 or, you know. Yeah. Easy, easy. But everybody's journey is different. Yeah, absolutely. And there was a question that came up earlier about, um, whether we, or whether we thought that we were always gonna adopt or Oh, yeah. Or foster. Go on. I would say I never thought about fostering or adopting, particularly growing up. I, yeah. I, I wasn't really a concept. I think. Coming to church and being exposed to people like Adam, Jeremy sells. Yeah. Yeah. I think then it became a part of a process Yeah. In my thinking that Oh, this is actually an option. [00:35:00] Yeah. For me it's a, it's not a stigma. There's not that same stigma No. As it, there used to be attached in life. Uh, you know, and I, you know, Jack, I think it was in, in the comments, you know, your story that you discovered, um, you know, you adopted when you were, when you were eight. Yeah. You know, that I think that's changed. You know, certainly our kids know that they're adopted. And actually, I wanted to say this little story today in church, they were doing a little, um, thing about listening to God and like praying. And, um, Olivia had to ask God what, or tell God something that was wow about her. Oh, sorry, I've just told her name. Nobody knows. Forgive me. Nobody knows. And, um, and so, um. Basically, she said, the thing about me that's wow to God is that I am adopted. Yeah. And I was just like, hooray. It's a positive thing for you. It is. Um, that, you know, and that's today and tomorrow it might be somewhere else. But, uh, that's a reality, isn't it? [00:36:00] And I, I was thrilled about that today. Yeah, Phil: that's a, that's a fantastic story. And Clare: Dave wanted to know something about Yeah. About our children. Phil: So, uh, it's, it's the best. So I talk about fostering a lot, um, in my job. 'cause I, I find foster care as I promote fostering, and I often asked, what about birth kids? And obviously you'd need to ask them and they will give you a blunt truth. But generally speaking, I'm really proud of our birth kids. And we don't go birth kid, birth kid, adoptive kid. No. They're just the kids. But, um, I know that our both, it's a value in our family. I would say a value is. You make your house welcome an opening to other people. And it's really interesting about, one of the verses I could talk about so much, uh, that Adam mentioned was, um, uh, God puts the lowly families huge. And I think that's, that's like whether they're a refugee, whether they're a baby, whether they're a teenager, or whether they're 101 years of age, no one is meant to live a life No. Of loneliness. No. And, and it's making your home, it's extending your table, isn't it? You know, to use that analogy of our kitchen, our table, there's always room for more people. Yeah. [00:37:00] Let's bring 'em in. Let's welcome everybody. Let's, the, the Yiddish word is mish poker. It's one of my favorite. And it just means your family, your friends, anybody who can walk into your house. Go into your fridge, put the Kettle on and go, I'll make the tea. Um, it's a wonderful phrase. So I would argue, I would say that our, our birth kids have become better people because we have lived with this, with this, uh, hospitality Yes. In our, in our family. Yeah. Um, and, um, I, you know, one day they might turn around and go, actually this wasn't so good. Or This wasn't that good. I'll go, well, it's how we chose to live and I guess all families choose to live in a, in a certain way. Um, Clare: and your, your, your boy Jamie. Phil: Yeah. Clare: He has really blessed our kids. Um, they think he's fab and I think because there's some understanding Yeah. Of how, um, children impacted by trauma Yeah. And, um, you know, different, uh, they call it adverse Yeah. Childhood experiences. Yeah. Um. [00:38:00] Uh, you know, respond and reaction to certain situations and just need that little extra Phil: Yeah. Bit of Clare: TLC. Phil: Yeah. I would say both my kids, both kids have got a sense of, they understand that not everybody has had the blessings and privilege Yeah. Uh, that they have. And I think that's a really important thing to have in life, to go. Yeah. There are other people I, what I've got this good thing I'm going to, I'm gonna share it. Yeah. Um, so, uh, uh, to, for one of our particular foster kids, very long story, and I I bridge it slightly, is one day we'd had this lovely, lovely kid, he'd lived with us for a few years and I always, I've told this story possibly on Crowd Church before, but one day he's being very, very quiet. And he, uh, and if, you know, if you've got children and a quiet child, you go, oh, they'll be fine. Probably. But then I start to think, I better then see what he's doing. Yeah. And he was in our lounge, the front lounge, often known as the posh lounge. Dunno if you've got one of them. No. And he'd take, he'd taken, uh, he'd taken a family photo off the, off the wall and he, he'd pulled off the frame and he'd broken the glass and he'd got a pen and he'd added himself. So there's a little drawing of him. It was a lovely little picture. [00:39:00] And, um, I went, oh, that's very interesting. Uh, 'cause you, you do learn when you foster not to be surprised and not to be shocked. And, uh, sometimes Clare: it's hard. Sometimes it's hard. Yeah. Phil: And, uh, and I was like, oh, why'd you think you've done that? And it's a very hard thing. I think it's about eight. It's a very hard, maybe a bit younger, seven very hard thing to say. Yeah. Um, I, I love you. I want to be here. It is making yourself very vulnerable. Mm. It's hard when you're an adult, but we, we sort of said is this, do you think you want to be in our family? Do you want to join our family forever? And for him. Because there is no other birth family, no other relatives. There's no way of him. Yeah. There's no other family that he could go back to. Yeah. Yeah. We, we adopted him. Now that isn't the best thing for every child. Mm-hmm. Who's in foster care. Sometimes they're called children in care, sometimes they're called looked after children, which don't really like, 'cause it's spells looked after, child spells, lack, and I don't like the word, but sometimes children go back to their birth family. Sometimes they get adopted, sometimes they live in foster care for long periods of time. So we have one brilliant lad, um, and I could [00:40:00] use his more details. He, we were told by social workers, and if you want, if you like, if this sounds, we love social workers. Yeah. We love him. Yeah. Come on. If this, if this sounds, um, this is, this is one. It might, might convince somebody if you're thinking about fostering, find out more. So we got a phone call one day from social worker, I think it was a Monday. Can you take a 10-year-old? Uh, he's a boy and he's Russian. And, and we were like, when? And they went. You know, two hours. Yeah. And this, this lad Google Transl. Yeah. Well this lad Yeah. This lad had gone into school in the morning. So think about this. Everybody, if you're watching, yeah. This is a very emotional thing, but this is the reality. He'd gone into school. Yeah. He carried on school. All was normal. His mum had got very seriously and had gone to be, she'd been taken into hospital and the medical staff had had rung up social services saying, we've got this lady, she's in a hospital. There's no way she's going home for the foreseeable future. We know she has a child in your school system. Yeah. And so the social workers are going, right. They find out the name of the child, they find out the school where he is at. 'cause they've got a database. They ring up the school. Is this boy [00:41:00] in school today? Yes, he is great. Right. We know he's safe at school. They then go through their list of approved foster carers. Yeah. And they came to us and they said, look, we know he's 10. We, well, we're pretty sure he's 10. We know he's a boy and he's Russian. Can we bring him round in two hours time? Now, for some people, that would be terrifying. Impossible. The logistics. But as a foster carer or foster carers, we went, yeah, but hang on a minute. We also know that they wouldn't be ringing us if we didn't have somewhere. If he had somewhere else to go. So we went, right? We'll say yes. And this is a, this is a bit of an insight into the character, foster carers. There's a need. We'll try and meet it. Lots of other issues. Lots of problems. What about tomorrow? What about, you know, does he, what is he like? Eating and drinking? What about you? Dunno. Dunno. Any of those things, but we'll find a solution. Yeah, this lad. So think of a 10-year-old in your head. Yeah. He's leaving school. He's done numeracy literacy. Yeah, he's done coloring in and golden time. Played footy in the yard and he's about to leave. School head teacher has to grab him on the way out. Takes him into the office. Social [00:42:00] worker's there. He's looking at a social worker, he's looking at the head teacher. He's terrified. Yeah. Social worker. He doesn't know what one is. It's just a lady. And this lady has to say to him, you can't go home. Your mommy's ill. Yeah. We don't know how Ill, we don't know when you can see her. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna take you in my car. Mm-hmm. We're gonna drive to another bit of the city. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna put you into the house of some people who are called Phil and Helena. Yeah. If somebody says that to your child, you would tell your child, don't go with a stranger. Yeah. So the head teacher has to convince this lovely young lad it's okay to, it's safe to go. Yeah. But you can't promise anything. You can't go. I'm sure it'll be all right. 'cause you don't know. You can't say I'll see you tomorrow. 'cause you don't know. This social worker puts this lad into her car. He is wearing the same clothes he left. This, uh, his home with, you know, he's got nothing, nothing with him for an overnight stay or longer. She drives him across Liverpool. She's never met us before either. Now we've been told he was Russian. So I did go on YouTube, how to say hello in Russian, [00:43:00] this, and we decided where he are. No, that's not, that's the different way. It's more complicated. There's an easier way. Don't listen. We speak Clare: all languages. Listen to her Russian, Phil: her Russians, rubbish. Listen to mine. Anyway, mine's clear. Listen. Well that's, that's the thing. Exactly. It's from, anyway, anyway, this, this lad arrives. Um, and I, we decided, my wife decided social, you deal the social worker. Yeah. I'll chat to the lad 'cause he is a boy and I'm a boy. This is the best we can come up slightly. Say Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, this ladder arrives and I went Brit, which is another way. Yeah. Pritt another way, ette another way of saying hello. And I'm not joking. And I was really proud 'cause I got on YouTube to find this out and he stared at me. He went, ah. That's fast. Why are you speaking Russian? I'm not Russian. And I went, aren't you? And he went, no. And, and then he did a about Eastern European tang and a twang. And I consensus, I'm not Russian, I'm from Moldova. Now we know bit more about this now 'cause we don't wanna get into the other political situation. But can you imagine if you told somebody from Ukraine they were Russian or Russian Ukraine? He's like, [00:44:00] I'm not Russian. It's, it's like Russia is a thousand miles away from Moldova. Yeah. So I went to him. You are not Russian. You're from Mold over. Well where is Mold over? 'cause I'd heard of it, but I didn't know where it was anyway. Well, you've Clare: probably never been there either. Phil: Well he, he was like going, oh, he said he came and he went, ah, I, I can tell you where it is. Let's get Google Maps out. So we basically spent the first hour or so Yeah. On Google Maps, finding out where he was from. Video: Yeah. Phil: And then we played FIFA online, which I'm sure you're familiar with the football game. Never. He was, he was mulled over and me and my son Jamie were the rest of the world in a FIFA game and he managed to beat us. Yeah. Now this is just a little anecdote of what can happen if you foster that. Lad stayed with us. He was able to go back to his same school 'cause it was safe there. So he was able to keep that connection. And he lived with us for six months. He stayed in foster care for I think maybe two years and all. And eventually we heard on the grapevine he'd gone back to Mold Dover. Wow. Uh, and then. About a year ago I was on Instagram chatting about [00:45:00] football, get You Instagram. And suddenly out of nowhere I got a message saying it. Oh, it's gonna make me cry. Are you Phil? And I went, yes I am. And he went, did I live with you? Yeah. And it was his possible kid. And he found us. Yeah. He tracked us down and now he, he's at university, lived with his mom. Yeah. He lives back with his dog. He was always worried about his dog. Yeah. And um, he didn't need to go into adoption. He just needed somewhere to stay, stay, stay while his mom was ill. And he didn't have any fur fa, other family in the United Kingdom. Yeah. So it's, and every single child in care Yeah. There's a story like that. Yeah. And for us, we are motivated to foster, we were motivated to adopt by our, by our faith. Yeah. Because as Adam went through so many verses there, um, and, but also, you know, it's our faith, but it's also a sort of just a general altruism. Just a general social. Come on, we can make a difference. And it's like you say, I mean, you'll have had some tricky times with, you know, all parents will say about tricky times with [00:46:00] kids. Yeah. If you've been through a degree of significant amount of trauma, you do function and approach life, I think in a different way. And which is why I sort of started off by saying it's difficult. We have to be careful when we chuck out. God is like a father. Because for some people, well that's, that's not good. No. My father left me. My father hurt me, my father, yeah. Whatever. Yeah. And so we have to be careful now we can couch that language. But, um, being, yeah. Go on. Clare: Well, I was just thinking about that sense of belonging, isn't it? It's, it's so. Key to our children. Oh man. Yeah. And like who they are and their identity and programs now, like long Lost family Yeah. And all of that. And the amazing technology that can connect people. Yeah. Who previously that we were talking about, um, before, weren't we about Phil, the film and you know, these people who, who were completely separated from birth Yeah. Who didn't know their birth family. Uh, whereas my children do have that information, that luxury. [00:47:00] Um, but they still haven't met them. Yeah. And so to, you know, but to, to become part of a new family. It takes time. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and, and our children have been with us for four years now, but it's still, it, it feels like a 4-year-old, you know, even though they're physically older. It, it, there are still things that they are learning about me and my husband. That, well, he is just different. And it, it rewrites that past and that traumatic past of the separation from birth family, then the separation from foster family where they were, well, well looked after and well Video: offed, Clare: but we're able to keep in touch with foster family, which helps to keep that sense of identity and, and, and, and love and acceptance and, and all those really important things. So I think, um, yeah, it's just, it's just, it's, you know, Phil: it's, Clare: I think if, if I, if I think too [00:48:00] much about my children's story, I would get, I, I just get like overwhelmed. Overwhelmed. Yeah. And so to live with it day to day, you just have to get on with it. Yeah. From nine times outta 10. But every now and again, you have little glimpses into it. And, you know, one of mom, it's mainly my older child because she's older and she remembers more. And that, that's actually a really interesting thing actually. They, they've had the same experience, but they haven't had the same experience. Yeah. 'cause one can remember it and one can't. And so you're dealing, I guess like all families, chil birth children are different even when they're, you know, they're all Yeah, the same. They're all unique, aren't they? Yeah. Each child is unique and so you have to tailor your approach, um, to, to each one. And Phil: it, it's interesting as, as well, 'cause I, I certainly, I, when I say I'm a teacher and I've done some youth work before we decided to have our own children before we decided to foster. And in culture there are looked after children or orphans all the time. So Harry Potter's possibly the most famous orphan in history. Yeah. Little Orphan Annie is [00:49:00] another famous orphan. The clue is in the name. Yeah. And I've gotta say, I actually hate that film now. I didn't mind it when I didn't know about Orhan. Annie Little Orphan Annie just drives me mad 'cause. Somehow there's this idea that there's a lud of children smiling and grinning who will be, uh, very grateful and thankful for some random family picking them up. And it, I always find it a little, I find it twe, it annoys me Clare: because, and a Green Gables is a better one. Phil: Yeah. Okay. And you might Clare: not have read that as a bloke. It's bit girly, but it's very gender Phil: something. But you're absolutely right. I haven't, but I have watched all of the star wares with Luke and Leia, Clare: but that also Yeah, yeah, exactly. Very powerful siblings separated. Yeah, exactly. Phil: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, you know, if you want to look at a difficult relationship with the father, Luke Skywalker is a very good place to start. But you get this in cartoons, you get this in all sorts of Disney productions. And it's a, it's an interesting thing because there's something about, I really believe there's something about. Human beings where your heart goes out to orphans. Yeah. Or sometimes it's a plot device. Let's just remove the children from a, a story.[00:50:00] But even if you think about something like the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe, a bunch of kids go and live in the countryside, separated in a house, separated from family. Yeah. Then they go through a wardrobe and it's, there's no adult's involved. And whilst it is quite exciting to go, let's just remove the adults. Also, I think there's something in the heart of human beings that roots and shouts for the child that doesn't have a family, that has a very bad, or, or should we say a disadvantage start in, in life. And, um, it's Clare: a good job, eh? Yeah, it's a good job. Phil: It's a good job because other, otherwise, otherwise, otherwise more Video: children. But it's, I, Phil: I don't know about You must do in your, in our world, we call these things triggers or triggering and we go, oh, we gotta be careful of that film or that show, because it might names, yeah, it might make, uh, it might make our little man, I, I say little man, he's 15 and he's massive. He's not Clare: little anymore. He's bigger than Phil: me. Um, you know, and sometimes if we go to the similar, James Bond is another or Orphan. He is, Clare: yeah. Yeah. Um, Phil: I can't remember exactly the backstory, but you know, he's, he's, he grows up is that Clare: house in Skyfall Phil: and it just happens again and again. [00:51:00] And even if you. If you don't, if you live in our world, you think about it a lot more and you go, oh, we've just gone into a film and we are watching something. And is, are you okay with this? Yeah. How does it matter? Well, Clare: but I find myself thinking, realizing that I've got loads of triggers now personally, you know, like, you know, you know, just like with behavior and stuff like that, I'll think, you know, oh no, that's triggering me now. Yeah. So, you know, so yeah. It, it's hard Phil: just putting, lion is another one. Yeah. Lion is a, is a beautiful story. Yeah, that is a good story. All that And, and it, and it's funny 'cause there is a degree of, there's a degree of pain there. Um, and all these stories, and I'm sort of being a bit flipp about some of them, but bizarrely. I, I quite in, I, I don't like looking for the pain, but I like the fact that there's a response to it. And the, the thing about some of these stories is they're just sad. Whereas I find, uh, well fostering and who have adopted somebody, there's thousands of kids, we can't save them all. You know, it's like the, there's a great story about a little boy saving starfish that have [00:52:00] been washed up on the beach and somebody says, you'll never save them all. And the little boy goes, yeah, but I'll be able to save this one. Yeah. And kind of that's how, how I look at it, or we look at it is, yeah, this little kid, I mean, I'm, I'm not his savior, I'm just his dad or uh, or whatever he chooses to call me that day, but it's. He's had a difficult time. Video: Yeah. But Phil: his future Yeah. Is positive. And sometimes I watch, what is it? Is there one called, um, who do you think you are? Where you just Yeah, yeah. The family tree. Your family tree. And I'm thinking, 'cause I've got a massive ego, wouldn't it be great if one day one of my children's, children's children was on that and then they find out, oh, and then there was two people called filling out and they adopted this kid. Yeah. And people would go, Aww. And they'd all be crying and it'd all because of me Clare: in a good way. And we share our, our whatever inheritance we give our kids, they, they'll be in our wills. They'll inherit whatever we have. You know, the good, the bang, the ugly Phil: and is interesting. Is it 'cause when you adopt or when you foster, you are engaging with everybody And a beautiful [00:53:00] story. Is that five seconds or five minutes, Matt? Clare: Five minutes. Phil: Oh, five minutes. Keep going. Oh, look at that. I just looked to the watch. Yeah. Sue God being father is part of the reason. Okay, we'll talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, read that one. I'll just tell this little story. 'cause I want, when we adopt did ring my family and say, look, we're gonna, this. This one we are keeping, and it sounds really odd. And uh, my dad said, ah, I've changed my will. And I'm thinking, oh wow, you've already taken on, yeah, you've got another grandson. And that was very big. That was very important to us. Yeah. That our and our extended family, my wife's family too, all being part of this process and all included and all being part of the, a adoption. Yeah. Um, are you okay, so Sue's got made. Thanks for that. Those comments, Sue there? Yeah. Um, uh, Clare: I, I don't, I'm not sure how there's a going on. There's a, there is, but we love you Sue. We remember you with so much love and, Phil: and, and, and it is, I know you, there's lots going on there. There's, there's a, there's is a depth here and I think very often a church, I don't think people in churches mean to hurt.[00:54:00] Probably sometimes they might do. No hope not. But it's a very emotive issue and sometimes people can be, 'cause we were talking earlier about what wording to use, what raising to use. Um, and like in a church like ours where I would say there's quite a lot of kids. And adults who didn't live with their birth family, were very careful to say, write your, your, your mom, your dad, or whoever looks after you. And sometimes people can use language they don't mean to, but it can exclude. Um, and people can use the term father very glibly or family, very glibly. And people can feel excluded in my understanding. That is definitely not god's, its not plan. It's not God's plan heart. It's, it's how humans the world is. The world is broken, which is why some kids can't live with their mom and dad. And they, they come and live with people with whom they share. No, DNA. We make mistakes, Clare: don't we? And we need God's forgiveness to, Phil: to Clare: help us repair that. Phil: And, and you know, I'm from a very, very solid background in as much as my mom and [00:55:00] dad being married a bazillion years, they moved into a house in 1975. And they still live in it. So when I go to my mom and dad's, I sleep in the same bedroom I slept in when I was in year one. Video: It's quite unusual, isn't it? Yeah. They have Phil: changed the wallpaper, but, but other than not Orange Dad anymore, other than that, it hasn't changed. But you know, and I say I'm from a great background, but still, um, and I'm gonna quote CS Lewis who wrote the lion, the witch he did, and the wardrobe he did along with Clare: a load of stuff, loads of other Phil: stuff. Brilliant. A bit more erudite. But he said something along the lines of that I'm gonna misquote him and I know he is not the Bible, but he said, if I don't feel at home in this world, maybe it's because I was actually intended for another one. And I come up thinking, so I'm from a very, very secure background, but sometimes I'm go, I go, why do I feel at unease? Why do I feel not one on planet Earth? And I, in my belief system, one day I will die and I will go to heaven and I will meet God who is a perfect father. There is not a. A [00:56:00] perfect word in our language to describe him. And there I will feel fully at home. And the, the Bible is loads of theology here, loads of, you know, biblical stuff about God wants us to be in his family and because it's made up of humans, it's not perfect. I like you. But I bet if he's, if we aren't around for longer, you know, it would be lots of things I would Yeah. I would annoy you even though you're impatient and you both. Yeah. Uh, but God, God's plan is for everybody. Yeah. If God's plan is for everybody to be included Yeah. Everybody to feel part of this, this family, um, whoever and Clare: I, and I think the joy, I think you are enriching your life by having more people in it. Yeah. So that I can think of two particularly single women who, who attend our church and who have, who love my kids. Yeah. And who, yeah. You know, come round for tea and they buy them gifts. And they, you know, sweets that I have to smuggle away. Yeah. Because it's not, because it's, you know, not the right time. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and that, that just [00:57:00] really, you know, they're part of our family, our wider family Yeah. As well, you know, which I love. Yeah. Um, and my kids love them, you know? Well, Phil: I wonder whether that's one of the mistakes that we've made as a society going family is the people with whom you share a blood link and it's like, I don't think it was ever really meant to be that way. And there is a sort of sense of community, the sense of village. Say my favorite Yiddish word, mish polka. Huawei, it's a new word, hu Maori. Huawe is Maori. And it just means you are kind of like your tribe, but you don't have to share DNA And it, you know, those verses that Adam shared about he wants to be a father to the fatherless. We should look after the orphan and the widow, which is the most marginalized people in society. But he puts slowly in families, well, our family. Is one of those people. Yeah, one of those families. Your family can be and yours is too. Yeah, and our, certainly our little man, he sees our church community Yeah. As a safe space. Yeah. Where he's welcome, where he is loved, where he has the same rights as anybody else. He goes to the [00:58:00] fridge and he takes out whatever, and he takes it out and he eats it quite often. He fries it as well. Nice. He's, he's big up fry, and he likes to fry between two and four in the morning, and today he shared me his new recipe. You put the beans in, in the fry pan. Now you put the beans in the jar. The jar means a kind of glass bowl. Then you put the cheese in. Then you put a load of butter, then you microwave it two minutes, then you put it in the oven. Then you put the toast in the toaster. Then you put it all in. Then you mix it all up. Then you eat most of it, and then you leave the plate on your bedroom floor for weeks and weeks for somebody, for somebody to step in or for somebody, or for somebody else to take. Yeah. With extra, Clare: extra mold. Phil: And that recipe comes free from the Super cake. Uh, and it is, you know, if, if you wanna know more about fostering, please get in touch with your council or you can ask Crowd Church. Yeah. Adoption. You can ask Crowd Church. Find out about it. Yeah, we'd love to talk to you. Um, it's an enriching thing, and you'll never be bored. Clare: Oh no. Phil: If you are bored, if you are bored, [00:59:00] I'll give you your money back. Clare: Did we pay? Phil: No, no, we don't. Clare: I often say go and get on free about Phil: my two. Clare: I do. I often say, oh yeah. Bought one, get on free. Yeah. Phil: And you two could, you two could find themselves laughing. Yes. Constantly. Okay. Clare: About about two kids. But you have no idea how Yeah, that's, Phil: it's, it's, it's very exciting. Yeah. And I say a long time ago, I used to be a salesman for graphic arts filing. Oh, there's nothing wrong with selling graphic arts filing. I've Clare: got a filing cabinet turned into a garden now. Phil: Okay. Well that would've been me. And, and it was okay. It's a good job. It was very, it was very good job. And it's important to do any job you do Well, yeah. But my life is more exciting. Clare: I'm so glad you stopped being filing cabinet, man. Oh yeah. It was, well, it was just always like, what? That was all like what Phil: we Clare: got off. I think Phil: we got off point. It must be, yeah, we might have done it must be, Clare: but I'm gonna bring it back. Phil: Because, Clare: because I think I'm just gonna make it a little moment now. Uh, I think that, you know, we are looking through the files of our lives, aren't we? Yeah. And, [01:00:00] and our, there are, we, you know, our kids are chosen. Yeah. Aren't they? Yeah. We get to say that we chose you. Yeah. And they didn't necessarily have a choice about it and would hate it, you know, didn't wanna be here. But we chose you. Yeah. And, and God chose us. Yeah. In that same way, he adopted us into his family, to his family. And so that means that we are unique. Yeah. We are special. We are loved. Beyond, beyond. More Phil: than we can understand. Yeah. And I hope, I understand that. It's hard every time I, I get, I get a whiff of that. It overwhelms me. I find it very emotional and I love that about it. Next week it's about Crowd Church, about parenting. So we better tune in to find out how, Clare: who's doing that? Phil: Who's it's got, it's obviously not us. Somebody Clare: you've got, you've done something Phil: for. I've, I've got vast experiences and parenting and all I can tell you is just when you think you know what you're doing, boom. A kid will come along and go, oh yeah, you think you've got this sort. Tune in next week. I will. I'm I'm, Clare: I'm gonna be learning all. I think I'm an Phil: [01:01:00] eighties tv, but tune in next week. 'cause we are gonna be talking about parenting. Um, however you, this is weird. I do say however you got your kids. Clare: Yeah. Phil: Or however you might get a bike cry. However, you can't say that about hook bike crook. No, no. Totally legal. Do not do no harm. However, no cross. However, whether you're a birth parent, a foster, carer, an doctor, or whether you are adopted or if you are been in care. Yeah. We, we, I know we, we love this, the nature of, but, um, God does love you. Yes. And, um, I think God wants us to all expand our families and encourage and in, uh, include everybody. Yeah. Because in the same way, like you said, God chose each one of us. He calls us by name. Yeah. We, he knitted us in our mother's womb. It's an Clare: amazing, amazing format. Yeah. Phil: It's a lovely, yeah. Uh, alright. Clare: Are we done? What's there? I think there's another song coming up, isn't there? Excellent. To finish us out. Phil: Oh, that's what we should have said. And Clare: is it how, oh, I don't know. I've forgotten the name of the song. It'll be brilliant. Phil: It'd be brilliant. It's been Clare: lovely to chat to you. Yeah, Phil: [01:02:00] I've really enjoyed this. Yeah, thanks. Even if they haven't, I've really, we've enjoyed our Time Clare: Channel was simple Phil: with you, Claire. Anytime. That was brilliant. Alright, so we're gonna end with a song now, but if you want to keep commenting, please do. Thanks for what you've said. Uh, um, yeah, it's been some lovely stuff there and some deep stuff. Video: Yeah. I was orphan at the fall running away. When I hear you call Father, you work you'll. I had no righteousness through my own. I had no right to join me, you throne. Father, you love me still and love. Before you [01:03:00] lay the world's foundation, you pres to adopt me your own. You have praise me above. The child of God by grace. Grace, you left your home to seek out the. You knew the great terrible cause, but Jesus, your face was, sir, I worked my fingers down to the bone. The I did. You ever told Jesus, you paid my dad.[01:04:00] I have redemption and salvation. Lord And I born again. I was in darkness all of my life. I never knew the day from the night Spirit made me see. I swore on you the way on my own head, full of rocks apart made of stone. Have your touch. My sleeping on my dark and hard light in Christ is shown. [01:05:00] Called to a kingdom cannot shake heaven. Yes. Standing feet by grace and grace alone, I'll run this race by grace and grace. No, I'll reach the by grace and grace alone. Heaven.