What Does The Bible Say About Parenting?

What does the Bible say about Parenting_ Matt: Well, good afternoon now. Welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt Edmundson, and beside me is, well, it's one of my favorite people in the whole world. Uh, my beautiful wife. How you doing, babe? Sharon: I'm doing well, thank you. Hi, everyone. Good to be, good to be with you. Matt: I can hear you. That's, that's awesome. That's the sound check done. Uh, so yes, we're a little bit, um, we're a little bit behind on the old tech today, but we're good. We are good to be live. Welcome to crowds. Great that you are here. We are an online church. Yes, we are. Uh, which means that we just do church, but online and today, babe, what's the, sorry, everybody. I'm gonna be calling Sharon Beg because it's just default Sharon: allowed problem. Yeah. So the plan today is we're talking about what does the Bible say about parenting? Um, we've got a bit of a Matt Sandwich, so we've got a couple of people just sharing, um, some thoughts about parenting from their point of view. And then we've got Matt, and then we've got Phil sharing some more thoughts, and then we've got Matt again. So, um, yeah, lots of Matt today. Matt: Yeah, sorry about that. Sharon: Yeah, we're, we're aware that there are many subjects which can be a bit tricky emotionally, and I think this can be one of them either because, um, maybe you've got, had a difficult relationship with your own parents or maybe you want to be a parent and you aren't, you aren't. So, uh, pray God's peace and grace on you today. Um, and hopefully we'll do something that's relevant for everybody. Absolutely. So my eyes are, Matt: you're crying already. Sharon: Yeah, I'm too, well because I'm very blurry today. That might be an advantage. Matt: Yeah. I dunno why that is either. I really dunno why that is. That's, that's doing my head in slightly. But anyway, uh, welcome to the livestream. Uh, if you've just joined us as we are, as we [00:02:00] are doing our introductions. Um, and if this is your first time here, welcome to you. It's great that you are here. Do say hi in the comments. Come join the conversations whether you're on Facebook, like our beloved Matt Crew, uh, is in Facebook. And also on YouTube. So we've got people coming in on YouTube as well. So come say hi. It'd be great to hear from you. Uh, Matt has Matt just come in from the gym? He looks sweaty. Sharon: He's got a tough day today. Lots of things have gone wrong to do with broadcast today, so Yeah. Yes. Potential. Matt: Yeah, there's a, there's a few things we've had to deal with today, but, um, but fortunately we've got there and it's always good to tell you these little stuff, these little things every now and again, right? I have these little postcards on my desk, uh, which were sent to people by my good friend, Simon o Shaughnessy. Uh, and they're quite good fun. And so, um, thank you. For you. There we go. Uh, I dunno why I'm showing you those. I'm just showing you those, they're on my desk. Uh, so yes, uh, as Sharon said, we're talking about parenting but the conversation will be open for all. And if you have any questions, thoughts, ideas, stories you would like to share, do put them in the comments as we go along. Uh, that will be wonderful to hear from you. Phil's, uh, Phil says, tennis has finished us in time, uh, which is great. Was it the final today? Have I missed the final? I'm not quite sure. I did watch, um, the, the Grand Prix a little bit while I was getting ready for Crowd that I did have one in the background. But we'll stop there 'cause I know you don't want that conversation, babe. Sharon: No sport watching sports, just not my thing. So yeah, I'm not much to say about that. Matt: Yeah. Not joining in that conversation. Uh, but if you would like to join in the conversation, uh, about all things church related, do put them in the comments below. We would love to hear from you. We definitely would. So as Sharon said, we are talking about what does the Bible say about, uh, parenting? Yes. I've just gotten the topic from you then. So it's about parenting. That's what we're doing today. Uh, and the way this is gonna work is we are going to have a talk, uh, now, um, then we're gonna have a time of worship. We're gonna sing a song called I Will Exalt. This Means I will Lift You Up, God. And then Sharon and I will be back for Conversation Street to go through your questions and your comments, uh, as I'm catching. Oh, it's another week of Wimbledon to go. Apparently, uh, a great British poet has made it to the second week. That's awesome. Come on England. We like that. Um, so. That's the update on all things Wimbledon. It's just all part of the service here at Crowd. Um, Sharon: to be interested, I really do. Five minutes of something going on, I really, you know, this is good to be into, and then after five minutes I'm like, oh, I enough. Video: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's just, it's just, it's in the comments. We're just engaging with the comments. Sarah's in the comments. Hey Sarah, how you doing? Great to see you. Uh, thanks for joining us, Nicola's in the comments. Alright, Lala, uh, as we like to say to Nicola, hi, Sharon: Lala. Hi, Phil. Matt: Yeah, everyone's great. You're welcome here. And, uh, so without further ado, we shall jump into this week's talk. So what does the Bible say about parenting? Uh, as I say, it's not a straightforward topic, it's not even an easy topic, uh, but it is something that we should talk about. So do get involved in the questions, uh, in the comments with your questions and thoughts. Uh, and Sharon and I will be back after this. Here we. So my Josh: answer to the question, why did you want to become a parent? Um, I think is a tricky one to answer because for me, family growing up, family's always been a significant part of my life. Um, I have a brother and a sister who I get along really well with, and I guess my passion and desire was to be able to, um, be part of building a family unit that gave, um, my childhood so much meaning and so much fun, um, and so much happiness. Uh, so I think that was a huge driver is, is my love for my family. And, um, so I, I guess there was always a desire in me to see the same sort of thing. Um, come to fruition in, in my life with my children and, um, yeah, and in investing and loving, loving them. So I think there's lots of things involved with why I wanted to become a parent, but that's probably a, a significant one. What about you? For Charlie: me, I really relate to a lot of what Josh was saying. Um, and to be honest, I don't think I ever considered not being a parent. I think it was always part of my plan for my life. Um, something I always wanted to be. Um, again, I came from a family with siblings and always just assumed that I'd have several children of my own. And I think probably the harder question would be, did you ever consider not having children in a way? Um, because for me the answer was always the opposite. And, um, yeah, just ever really considered anything different was always sort of what I hoped and dreamed for. I would really just hope that my children know how loved and valued and cared for they are. And I think sometimes as a parent, you are always doubting yourself. You're always thinking that someone else could be doing a better job or always feeling like you made mistakes. And I think my hope would always just be that despite all of the things that I felt like I could do better, that actually they could just see, um, my intention and my heart for them and my love for them. Um, just over everything. And actually the, the other little everything else just wouldn't matter. Josh: Um, I think for me, well, we currently have two boys. Um, and for me, I think it's just raising them to be men of integrity. Um, you know, men that commit to things, um, and you know that their yes is yes and their no is no, um, that they, uh, stick to their word. Um, and, and that I guess they're just. The most upstanding members of society that we can, that we can, um, you know, encourage and, and develop. Um, so yeah, that would be one of my hopes. Anything else from you? Charlie: Yeah, I was gonna say, I would really love just to raise boys that have compassion, have love. I think we live in a society where you have, like, obviously we have boys. So for, from a male perspective, there's a lot of discussion about how to be a man and actually just have thought a lot recently about what I think it means to, to develop and grow boys into men. And actually the things that I would value in, in a guy. Um, and I want my sons to grow up to have those values. So to know how to love, how to cherish, how to be honest, how to be just, all of those things I think are just really important to me. And we would want to, um, guide them in that and put them, um. Yeah. Just really to be like that. And I just also have a massive de desire that my kids would love relationship with us. That they would always want to have relationship with us. And obviously from our point of view, when the time comes, we need to learn to let them go when they grow up and they'd become adults and potentially have families their own. But that I would really desire for us always to have healthy relationship with them and to model healthy relationship with them. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think also one of the big things for us is that, and that we're always thinking about is how we, um, bring our kids to know Jesus. How actually we introduce them to Jesus and we would just love it if they, they grow up, um, Josh: with a face just Charlie: knowing him face. Yeah, yeah. With Josh: faith, I think as well. Um, yeah. Just, just to finish, I just think, um, that they would, you know, they grow us and have helped us to grow in our faith. Um, and just in, in, in life, in, in our character, in our personalities, um, to sort of be better people. Um, and Charlie: we've learned a lot about ourselves, haven't we? Campaigns. Yeah. Josh: And I think, um, my hopes would also, yeah, just that, that we would help them to be the best that they can be. 'cause they've helped us to be the best that we can be. Um, and yeah, just that we, we instill in them, uh, just a, yeah, just a desire for them to, to, to be the best that they can be, um, in, in a real way. Um, and make the most out of their, their time that they've got, you know, on earth. Which sounds a bit, you know, um, tweed, but it, but it's, but it's true really, that they're, you know, the best men that they can be and grow up to be the best that they can be, so, mm-hmm. Yeah. Matt: Thanks Josh and Charlie. Weren't they just great? Now, parenting is a fascinating topic. Uh, so it's great to be asking this question. What does the Bible say about parenting? Because as a parent myself, I'm especially interested in the answer because, well, let's be real. There is no training for parenting. I did have to spend many months preparing to learn how to drive a car. I had to spend several days, uh, doing my first aid at work certification, but required absolutely zero formal training for parenting, uh, for me and for Sharon. Parenting has been a real treat and privilege and we have three fantastic kids, and miraculously we all seem to get along. But I also appreciate that this is not everyone's story of parenting. The whole topic, uh, of parenting and family can be really hard for so many people in our society. And I do believe that the ideal is to raise kids in a healthy and loving family unit, but that's not always possible. You see, my parents divorced when I was nine years old, which wasn't really a common thing, uh, in the eighties. And it's not just a me that's been affected by this in the Bible. Well, there aren't actually that many examples of perfect families. Take the very first family in the Bible, for example, Adam and Eve sin entered the world because of their decisions and they decisions they made before they even had kids. And when they did have kids, well, one brother murdered the other. It's the story of Cain and Abel, which let's just be fair is not a great start, right? But you fast forward to the time of Jesus. It's not got any better. At one point in the story, Mary, who is Jesus's mum, uh, turns up in an event where Jesus is speaking and in effect is there to have him committed because she thought he had severely lost the plot. It's not a great example of supportive parenting and the Bible is full of dysfunctional families and as the church we know that family is complicated and it can be very, very messy indeed. So let's look at some of the ideas the Bible teaches us, and the first, and perhaps most important one is this, that family is at the heart of God. Now, the Bible often uses language that describes our relationship with God as like a family. The Bible causes children of God and often refers to God as a father, a parent. And [00:15:00] this is important because we can look at how God deals with things and get guidance from that and inspiration from that in how we should parent ourselves. For example, God knew that we would get things wrong, very, very wrong, that sin would be a problem and that we would mess up and damage his reputation and undermined everything that he was trying to do. But he didn't punish us for that. He extended grace to us without ever watering down his own standards. You see, God is for us and not against us, and when we get tired and grow weary, he lends us His strength. His love is unconditional, and he tells us that times will be good and that times will be bad, that we'll have troubles in life. But wherever we are and whatever we find ourselves, we can lean into him. That sounds like a great role model for parenting, right? Not [00:16:00] only is family at the heart of God, the Bible tells us that children are in fact a gift from God, and that we should love our kids in a way that God calls us to love Now. What does that mean? See, Jesus' brand of love, uh, is talked about in a letter that Paul wrote to the Corinthian church. It is a passage often quoted at weddings, uh, but applies equally to us all as parents. And it reads this, love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud, and it goes on and on with some amazing truths. But why did Paul have to start with love being patient? Patience is not one of my greatest gifts, but it is simply moving at somebody else's pace. Love isn't pushy. You see this with grandparents, right? They tend to be more [00:17:00] patient than parents, uh, as parents always have somewhere to be or something to do. But what happens when you are walking with someone at a different pace? You become separated, don't you? And the gospel is about a God who moved at our pace. He came alongside us and drew us into him. He walks with us and it's great parenting advice. Otherwise, we separate ourselves from a kids and they become discouraged when they can't keep up, especially with dad's expectations. I love this quote from Andy Stanley. He says, my responsibility right as a father is not to decide what my kids do in life, but to put my considerable weight behind what they decide to do in life. Now, we could spend a whole lot longer in this chapter in Corinthians. It's full of so much wisdom and parenting advice. Uh, but instead, let's hear from Phil. Phil: Well, hello. And here are some thoughts about parenting. Um, my first thing I'd like to say is never really trust anyone who's got a theory about parenting because it's only a theory. And as soon as I think I know what I'm doing and we've got three kids, one of them will do something that'll go, I wasn't expecting that. That's a little bit of a shock, or, it's not quite what I wanted. So even if somebody has got, um, you know, some real deep considered thoughts, you have to think about what works for you, what works for your children. That's ultimately what counts. Not a generalized picture. The second thing is data. When people say, oh, I know what works because it worked for my kids, they've probably only got 2, 3, 4, 5. I dunno. And that isn't enough data to say, just 'cause it works for one kid means it'll work for all of them. And probably if you've got more than one kid, you've already discovered, they're different. They're their own people. They have this thing called free will. They have this thing called a personality, and that means that they don't respond in the same way to the same things just like you and just like me, which leads me onto whatever point I'm. Don't take all the credit and don't take all the blame. Okay? However, well, or however badly your kids are doing, it's not entirely down to you. It's more complicated than that. Um, so kids have free will, kids have their own personalities. You can't control that. Sorry. That's just the way it is. Um, I like to jump in with a little bible story here. If you can maintain a relationship with your kids, even when things are difficult, when, when they're tough and you think you're falling out a lot, if you can maintain a relationship, there's always a chance it ain't over till it's over. There's a wonderful story in the Bible, often known as the prodigal son should be called, the two sons Really, where the, where one of the kids has a massive car on. He goes off and he basically does exactly what his dad doesn't want him to do. But his dad waits for him and his dad says, I'm, I hope you comes back. I pray he comes back and when that son, the prodigal son comes back, the the dad is waiting, going, yay, you're back. Brilliant. Let's get on with our lives. It ain't over till it's over. Okay? There's another son in the story and he appears to be compliant, and some people might go, well, that's a lovely son. He does what he's told. You've gotta look at his heart. His heart is not in the right place. The compliance does not mean heart in the right place. Okay? Good behavior doesn't necessarily mean good behavior. Um, okay, next little bit of advice. Ignore society schedules. We have this thing that we've developed certainly in the west. I'd call it competitive parenting or treating our children like status symbols. My child can already use the potty. My child's already walking. My child's smiling. My child's very, very good on an iPad. My child can navigate the entire internet. My child's already got really good S SATs. They've got into this school. Aren't they great? They're doing the GCSEs, they're doing some of them early, you know, and they're doing these A levels and they're doing very academic A levels. They're going to this university, they're going to this college. They've passed their driving test. All this stuff. These [00:21:00] are all cultural. They are socially manufactured to make the rest of us feel rubbish or to make us feel proud. Don't take all the credit, don't take all the blame, okay? If your child gets some GCSEs well done. If they get them when they're 15 or 16 or 17 or 25 or 40, well done. Don't be constricted by the schedule that society imposes upon us. Almost everybody I've ever met has eventually learned to tie their shoe laces or use Velcro or go to the toilet themselves. Okay? And so go back to that first point. We are all different as well. Some people will never be very good at some things, but let's look at what our kids are good at and let's pursue those things and go, yeah, okay. I'm good at this. You are good at that. It doesn't diminish you, it doesn't diminish you, me. It's all good. Okay? Um, yeah. Parenting can reflect the culture and society in which we, we live. Um, some very practical things. If you can sit around a table. Eat at a table. Start when they're [00:22:00] little. Start when they're as young as possible and make sure you are at the table too. And if you wanna have rules at the table about phones, iPads, YouTube, whatever, you make sure that you live by them as well as your kids. 'cause they will see integrity. They will see if you keep your own rules. I think, um, another little tip surround your kids, especially when they're teenagers with good people. 'cause one day you might fall out with your teenagers and that might not be so nice and they'll go off in a bit of a drop. You want them to go to somebody who's fairly sensible, who may or may not say the same sort of things as you. So these could be aunts, uncles, they could be surrogate aunts, surrogate aunt, surrogate aunts and uncles. Surrogate family. Mish poka. My favorite Yiddish word. Your family and your friends and all those that live in a similar lifestyle to you. Um, parenting is a, is a, is a, is a fun job some of the time. It's fun. It's, I enjoy it. We say we've got three kids, two birth kids got by. Natural means we adopted one of our foster kids. I'm a youth worker. We've had other foster kids and I am a teacher and I have been for 25 years of teenagers [00:23:00] and I still don't know what I'm doing. And that's okay. Enjoy your parenting, everybody. Video: Thanks Phil. Always a legend. I do find Phil an inspiring guy, especially when it comes to family, you know, and parenting and how they foster and have adopted and how now Phil spends a lot of his time championing that. And it's worth mentioning of course, that we did talk about fostering and adopting last week. And this is a key part of parenting and family in the Bible. So do check out last week's livestream if you've not seen it. So let's close by looking at two other key aspects of parenting that the Bible talks about, right? The first is what I would call creating a culture of honor. And the second is that ever amazing topic of discipline. Oh, yes. So creating a culture of honor. Let's look at that one, right? It's a bit of a strange face, so let's dig into it. The Bible in quite a few places tells children to [00:24:00] honor their parents, but this idea is not something that kids are naturally born with, is it? Uh, it's one of those things that as parents, we have to train our kids in. Paul, when he was writing to the church in Rome, said this, be devoted to one another. Honor one another above yourselves. You see, you have to create a culture in your home of honoring. This means first and foremost. I have to model that with how I treat Sharon, the kids and other people. But why is this important? Well, in a culture of honor, there's actually very few rules, and I really, really like that. Uh, there are thousands of rules in a culture of dishonor. If you think about, for example, our current society, why do we need laws to prevent us [00:25:00] littering? It's messed up. I mean, in more ways than one. It's messed up and it's because we don't honor each other. I'm just gonna throw it on the floor and don't care. That's not honoring. See, Paul says here, be devoted to one another in love. The best thing I can do as a parent is to show my kids how much I love their mum. An honor has to be at the center of our house because honor is at the center of every great relationship, which is why we are told to honor our wives as husbands, why kids are told to honor their parents, and why us as dads should also honor our kids. And this idea leads me nicely onto the topic of drum roll, please. Discipline. Oh yes. How to discipline your kids. Let's touch on that very briefly. Put it simply, any behavior that is dishonoring, I think requires a response, a [00:26:00] consequence. Otherwise it's gonna be repeated over and over and over again. You all know what I mean? Right. And in our house, dishonoring would include things like lying, being disrespectful and blatant disobedience. And these behaviors require discipline. Now I think discipline is different to punishment. Lemme just be super clear about this, right? Discipline makes us better people. We all want to live a more disciplined life, whereas punishment makes us bitter people that work really hard not to get caught next time. Right now, at the heart of every transgression is a damaged relationship, and we can learn from the way that God deals with us and apply that to our own parenting. We learn that the goal of discipline then is to restore the relationship that was damaged. We can read about [00:27:00] that in the Bible. Okay. It says here in Hebrews that they, our parents disciplined us, uh, for a little while as they thought best. But God disciplines us for our good in order that we may share in his hol. No discipline. Seems pleasant at the time. No kidding, but painful, right? Uh, later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. That's what discipline is all about. It's about holiness, about restoring relationships and righteousness, and that should always be the goal when it comes to discipline in our kids, right? Ask yourself this question, how can I help them restore the relationship that has been broken? How can I get them to take responsibility and own what has happened as a consequence of their behavior? So that the [00:28:00] relationship is restored. That's the heart of discipline. There's so much more we could talk about on this whole topic of parenting. We could talk about how to train your children, how to coach them, how to provide for, you know, your family and the importance of all of that. Who their friend should be and why they should hang around with really good people. You know, all these kind of things. We may get into all of this in Conversation Street. Probably a good chance we will, but there is so much to say on this topic, but we are out of time. Suffice it to say, regardless of where you are at with your kids, there is always great hope in the Bible about the relationship we have with them. There is some great wisdom, some great insights. There are stories, some good stories, but there's stories of brokenness and tragedy, and in the midst of it all, there is a story of a God who took us all as his own children got alongside us and walked with us in this journey called life.[00:29:00] A song I.[00:30:00] [00:31:00] I.[00:32:00] Beside you. You beside you.[00:33:00] Welcome back to Conversation Street. I'm here with my beautiful, beautiful wife. Uh mm-hmm. We are talking about parenting. What does the Bible say about parenting? Uh, yes, we are getting into it. Lots of comments. Lots comments on Facebook. Let's comments on YouTube, which is great. Mm-hmm. Uh, so we're gonna get into that whole thing right now. Uh, so babe, it's the first time you've heard the [00:34:00] talk. It's like the fourth time I've heard them. So what stood out to you? Sharon: Yeah, I'm a bit of a late comer to the party today. I was sort of, um, about an hour beforehand. I kind of got roped in, so I'm, uh, on catch up at the moment. Uh, yeah, some interesting thoughts. I thought it was great that both Josh and Charlie had very good experiences of childhood. Um, I think quite often I, I spend time talking to people that, where that's not the case. Yeah. And it's more how you described for me examples in the Bible of very dysfunctional. Um, so it's always great to hear of stories where people have had great childhoods. Um, but yeah, and, but I think it is quite, it can be quite crucial can't it, in that our experience of being parented sometimes we can relate that to God. So if we've had a bad experience of a father, we kind of project that onto God and find it very hard to feel like he's good. And, um, yeah. So that can be [00:35:00] our own parenting I think can have a big effect on. Initially how we relate to God. Video: Yeah, yeah. No, it's very true. It is very true. Especially 'cause the Bible refers to God as father or a parent figure. So if you've had a bad parent that does tend to, um, or if you've been brought up in a bad way, you, it's very hard to understand what a good parent is. Now, I grew up, um, I have to say, with both loving parents and you know, my parents divorced when I was nine, so I grew up predominantly with my mum. And it wasn't until I came to church, actually, uh, when I was at uni that I started to see happy, happy, uh, families do, I mean actually a, a man who stayed with his wife, who loved his wife, uh, and who raised his kids well. And, um, it was eyeopening. It was absolutely eyeopening. 'cause that was not my experience. And so, and Sharon: it's like, um, from Nicola in the comments, I think you said something similar, um, and that until she came up to [00:36:00] church, it, it, it was then that she saw. Positive role models, and I'm glad to see that we were in that bracket. Thank you, Nick. Video: Yeah. That we weren't excluded. It was good to see it from everybody else, Matt and Shang. You've still got a few things to learn, right? So that's very true. Uh, very true. And it is interesting, isn't it? And one of the things that Nicola said in the, in the comments actually, and I quite like this, was, um, uh, she hoped to be a parent but hasn't been, but has become an aunt to many kids, including in a lot of ways our kids. She's been around our house a lot as our kids were growing up. I know Nicola's moved away from, uh, from Liverpool, but she's still up all the time, still has keys to my hands, I think. Um, but anyway, she, uh, she, you know, our kids grew up around her and she was phenomenal with, uh, kids. And I, I like the fact that she got stuck in and got involved with family. And there's quite a few pe a few people like Nicola that have done that right over the years and sort of got involved with [00:37:00] family. Um, and so I appreciate parenting. In some respects, we talk about it in the context of fa in term the context of marriage, um, or in the context of a mom and dad, but actually even if you are single, which the Bible totally affirms, uh, in very positive lights. Check out John Harding's talk on marriage and singleness. Uh, if you wanna know more about that, it was phenomenal. Um, you can still get involved, right? With family. Sharon: Yeah, and I think there's a verse, I'm trying to remember what it says now, uh, but it talks about the barren woman having more children than the one who has children. And I, I'm trying to remember the context as well, but I think it's about, um, that actually parenthood in a physical sense, actually points to a greater spiritual truth in terms of bringing people spiritually to God and being like a spiritual parent. And like anyone can do that no matter. Whether you are single or married or divorced or widowed or [00:38:00] wherever you're at, um, which I realize may not be the substitute that, um, people are necessarily looking for, but it, that is a very positive thing. Um, just because we're not a parent biologically doesn't mean that there isn't a, a role to play in God's family. Video: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I would say, especially to men, men listen up, especially single men, well in fact, married men and men just listen up. Right. Um, I think that we live in a society in the West that is so broken and fragmented that there are so many kids growing up in a house without fathers and they dunno what it means to have the father figure in the house. And you may be God's father figure to them. Right. And so you have to get involved and you can get involved with people and families, whether you're single, whether you're married, uh, it doesn't matter. Do you know what I mean? And I think the ability to, to play that role in other people's lives, I think is quite an extraordinary calling. And I [00:39:00] think men, we, we have that Christian men, you know, rise up and become the fathers, uh, for these people. That's my challenge. Sharon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I also thought it was interesting how with Josh and Charlie, they had a lot of emphasis on wanting to keep a good relationship with their kids and Phil as well. And again, I think it, it really, it points back to, you know, how God talks about himself being our father and how it's all about relationship like the Christian faith. It's about our relationship with our Heavenly Father who loves us not, um, it's not like there's this vague power somewhere off in the distance that has got no interest in us. Um. So I thought it was interesting that they both brought that point out. Video: Yeah. And what fascinates me about this actually is everybody wants to be a good parent. And I think there's a lot of insecurity around this and I, um, [00:40:00] and a lot of anxiety actually about parenting. And I, I mean, Charlie said that, you know, she's, she always thinks she could do better or be better as a parent, and there's always that, that thing in their head, isn't it? Um, and for me, I, I dunno if it's one of the secrets of my success, or whether it's just me just being fullheartedly or blah, I dunno, I, whatever it is, worked for me in the sense that when we, when we started, you know, breeding, uh, for of a better expression, um, Sharon: always so Video: romantic. I know. It just sounds amazing, doesn't it? Um, my, my default position was I'm a good debt. Right. I didn't need people to tell me that I was a good dad. I just thought from the outset, I'm gonna be a good dad. And the reason I thought this was one, I was married to an amazing woman, big deal right there. Uh, I was in a good church. I was surrounded by good people who would absolutely tell me at one side and down the other if I wasn't a good dad. Dave Conley being. Probably chief amongst them. We have this [00:41:00] thing in our marriage, don't we, Dave? Should we say this live? Or we have this thing in our marriage whereby, uh, if, um, I'm not doing what I should do as a husband, Sharon will say to me, I'm calling Dave and I'm telling Dave. Uh, and it Sharon: works the other way around as well. He'll say, I'm calling Dave on me. Video: I'm calling Dave. I'm telling Julie, uh, Dave and Julie, uh, are the founding pastors of the church, which Sharon and I belong to, along with Nick and Jenny Harding, in case she wants to know who they're, anyway. Um, so yeah, I think. You know, it, my default position was always be I was gonna be a good dad because like I say, I was, I was in a community, but also I can hear God's voice, right? I can, I'm a Christian man, I can read the Bible and I have a real heart for the things of God. Now, I'm not perfect in any way, shape, or form. So I never, I never believed I was gonna be a perfect dad. I always knew I was gonna screw him up at least a little bit. Um, what do you mean, you're so cute? Uh, but I, I did believe that I was [00:42:00] gonna be a good dad. And I think as Christian parents, uh, it's, it's actually life giving. Just to start off your parenting journey, just by going, actually I'm a good parent. That's, that's, you know, that's my default. I'm not arrogant in that. Um, I've gotta work hard to be a, you know, a really great parent, but actually God's in this and God's gonna help me. Uh, he's called me to do this, so therefore he's gonna, you know, help me in that thing. Dunno, what'd you think? Was that right or wrong? Sharon: Sounds great to me. Um, you know what, I don't think I've particularly suffered. I know for many parents there is that worry of, oh, I'm not a good parent. And again, I don't think I ever felt like that. It's more recent when, since our oldest went off to university that I'm like, oh, hang on a minute. I, I missed this and this and this. And whereas before that, I've not really thought about it. Video: Yeah. Sharon: Um, yeah. But it's like, yeah, I think for all of us, we have our things that we're good at and things that we're not so good at, and that I [00:43:00] think it's God's grace that fills the gaps on that one. Video: Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, one of the questions, uh, or in fact just going back to that, I like what Phil said. He said, what was it? He said, I've been a parent for however many years. I've got two birth kids, one for. Uh, adopted kid. We've had a bunch of foster kids. I've been a youth worker. I've been, I'm a school teacher. I've been this and this, that. I still dunno what I'm doing and that's okay. I thought, yeah, fair play. We're making this up as we go along. 'cause like I said, there's no formal training. Um, but it, I think it's interesting, isn't it that, um, that I, we are at a different phase to certainly Josh and Charlie, uh, in our parenting journey. You know, you've, we've got Josh, who's at uni, Zach's going this September. Um, Zoe's just about to enter GCSEs, which are her, our high school exams here. Um, so I think we're at a different phase, uh, in our parenting journey. But I have a question for you, babe. Right. [00:44:00] Okay. I think I know the answer. Have you ever caught yourself repeating something your parents said to you or doing something you said you would never do that they did? Sharon: Oh, I'm intrigued now as to what you think the answer is. Um. I can't actually think of anything off the cuff, but I have a feeling that you can think of things that I do that I said I'd never do. Go on. No, I can't. I Video: honestly can't think of anything off the top of my head. The reason I'm gonna say yes you do is because we all do. We all have those moments where we go. I remember as a kid saying to myself, I would never do this as a parent. And the one thing that I said that I'd never say, which I have said every occasionally, although it is most mostly ingest with our kids, if you live under my roof, you will obey my rules. Right. Sharon: I think they all laugh at you at that point, don't they? Video: Yeah. They our kids do. Yeah. They're like, whatever, [00:45:00] dad. Whatever, whatever. So let's talk about friendships. 'cause this was one of the things that we decided earlier on in our parenting journey. Um. That was gonna be a big deal. Right? So we knew that mom and dads, um, had some element of influence on our kids, but we also knew as they were getting older, uh, one of the big influences on our kids was gonna be friendships and who their friends were. So, uh, why don't you talk about that. Sharon: Yeah. Actually that was one of the things I think it might have been just as we were starting to have a family, I went and talked to, um, parents who were further on than us who'd got teenagers or older kids and said to them, okay, what things do you feel like you did well and what things were not so good? And gem, there's a common theme of where parents, um, would say, actually one of the things that wasn't as good was friendship groups where they'd gotten [00:46:00] with the wrong Crowd or, um, had not prioritized their kids. Um. Being around people who were likely to pull them in the same direction and that had actually been a box. So I think for us, we um, definitely wanted to make sure they had other friends within the faith community who would encourage them in their faith. Um, or at least they had more potential to do that and not to pull away. So, um, I think that was, you know, it is been great being in the church that we're in because there's lots of kids there. So that's been really helpful. And um, uh, I have a friend where that wasn't the case and I know her and her husband have actually kind of gone, hang on a minute. Um, we actually need to be in a church where there are kids the same age as our kids. Video: Yeah. Sharon: So that they've got those, uh, friendships. 'cause the Bible does talk about who you hang out with is, is really important and can affect your character. So it's not that we [00:47:00] avoid all other people. Um, but in terms of key friendships. I think that's really important. Video: It is. Especially when they're grown up. And that had an influence on us, didn't it, in terms of the school that we chose, um, for the kids to go to. Um, and I, I, looking back, I would say that's probably one of the things that we've done very well, um mm-hmm. Is we, is we helped create environments where our kids could foster friendships with like, valued people. Um, and one of the things that we did, uh, was we basically decided that we wanted to create a house where if the kids were gonna hang out with their friends and they're like, let's go back to Swan's house. We were like, well, let's make that our house, you know, where people feel confident and comfortable, where our kids feel happy to invite their friends to, and also where their friends go. Let's go hang out at Josh's house or Zach's house or Zoe's house. Do you know what I mean? And because when they come here, they have a good time. They're usually welcomed. And I don't usually [00:48:00] give too much banter. Uh, maybe not. Maybe, maybe I, maybe I do. I dunno. But they still come, they keep coming back and they raid my fridge and they, they eat all the food. And you know what? I'm okay with that. I'm really happy about that. And as they get older, they come and steal my beer, but that's okay. Right? Because we want them to come and hang around the house and to create the community around here. Um, I, I think that's again, something that we've probably done quite well. I dunno what you think. Actually. I've not asked you about it. Sharon: Yeah. But they, they, their friends come. So that's a good thing, isn't it? I've got a question for you. Is there any particular verse from the Bible which has really helped you in being a dad? Video: There's the verse, the verses I quote to the kids all the time about honoring your parents. Do you remember we'd be around the dinner table, wouldn't we all the time? And we'd just bring those, we'd just do like Bible readings and it's like every two minutes was like, honor your parents. It does say an awful lot in the Bible. So I had a lot of [00:49:00] ammunition. Uh, but I think, you know, that's, there's a, a few things that have really shaped me, that verse you mentioned about how bad company corrupts good character, um, in sort of, you know, helping plot, uh, or to, to, not plot is the wrong phrase, but to create an environment where the kids can foster good friendships. Um, Sharon: think that first as well. It's relevant for everyone, isn't it? Whether you are a parent or not, in just in terms of your own close friendships. And again, the, the Bible doesn't tell us to cut ourselves off from everybody. In fact, it tells us to go out into the world and Video: mm-hmm. Sharon: Um. You know, be with all sorts of different people, but in terms of key friendships, that's relevant for anyone, whether you are single or a parent or uh, whatever. Sorry, interrupt. Yeah, it's, Video: no, no, it's true. And I think there's the, the verse, you know, that Jesus uses, you know, where he talks about building your house on the sand, where it's quite a well known parable, uh, where Jesus says, you know, don't be like the guy that built his house on the sand because when the winds blow, the house falls [00:50:00] over. Build the, build your house on a rock. In other words, foundations matter because the kids are gonna face difficulties. And as a parent, you really don't want them to face hard times. You really don't want 'em to get sick. You don't really want 'em to have these issues to deal with. But the reality of life is they do. And so fundamentally, it's all been about foundations, isn't it? What are the right foundations that we can give our kids, um, and building those in? And I think, you know, one of the best things that we, although it's not related to the Bible verses one of the best things that we did was actually, well, what you did, actually, I, I dunno if I had any involvement in it. I just remember you telling me the answers of going around people who were, who we respected as parents and saying, tell us what you did well, tell us what you did bad. And just learning from that. Right. It was, um, super, super important. Sharon: I think we could do our own list now though. It is like the things that, um, other people said they did badly. It's like, okay, we make sure we do those bits really well, but actually then miss fill bits off. But I think that's life, isn't it? None [00:51:00] of us apparent, no matter how well we do, there's always something that we're, we could have, you know, been better. But thankfully God is gracious. Always go back to God's grace and his Absolutely. The Video: mm ab So what was something that you didn't do as well, do you think? Sharon: Oh, it's just like confession time on air, isn't it? Yeah, Video: it's alright. We're only live. It's fine. Sharon: Great. Um, I think it's more recently, like, like you said, we, when they were smaller, we used to have breakfast together and we would pray and read the Bible and stuff, but then as our schedules became different, that petered off and then I think, um. The whole thing of modeling, praying through everything. I don't think we've necessarily done that as well Charlie: in Sharon: later years. We might pray about stuff on our own, but not necessarily do it so that the kids can see it and so they're involved. So, um, so yeah, if you are, if in a stage with [00:52:00] younger kids, make sure you do that. That would be my for you. Just so that it's a normal part of life. It's just, uh, what you do. You just include God, uh, as naturally as if you could see him here in the room with you in all of your plans in your life. Yeah, Video: yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So last question, uh, uh, because I think it should be something we should cover. I mean, we talk a lot of, we've talked a lot about our kids. What, what about, I mean, you know, families and I know families, um, where the, the reason of kids has not been as much fun and you've had to deal with. Um, all kinds of things. Failure, hardship, so on and so forth. Any, any comments on that? Sharon: Well, I think even if you've been a great parent, those things can still happen, can't they? And your, your kids still can make choices that you don't like and you don't agree with. And I think that's where [00:53:00] really we, we do have to hand our kids to God and go, you know, I need you grace here Lord. Mm-hmm. And, and to pray into those situations and get people around us to encourage and to support us in Prayer. Um, yeah, I think that Prayer and the encouragement of other people is probably a good place to start. Video: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fascinating. One of the things that I've, uh, dear listener, a viewer, you may or may not know this, um, I run my own business and as part of my business is being on podcasts and live streams like this, but related to. And so I am invited to be on a lot of people's shows and podcasts, right? And what fascinates me is the amount of conversations I've had with people where we've started talking about work, something over here. And everyone's really intrigued very quickly how, hang on a minute, you're still happily married and you get on well with your kids. Can we [00:54:00] talk about that instead? And I'm like, sure, let's have that conversation. Uh, because it, it's one of those things that, um, we all know and to be true. I was talking with Dan Pryor about this the other day, you know, um, we were, we having a little walk catch up and it was always good to see Dan Bright. He's a legend. And we were just chatting away and I said to Dan, I said, listen, um, 'cause he was asking me, you know, how's life going? I'm like, man, life is just, is, there's always stuff, which you want to be better. But on the whole, I'm super grateful for the life that I have. And I said to Dan, I appreciate, I'm saying this from a position. Being happily married and having wonderful kids. There's sort of two foundations and it, you know, I, I'm gonna be spiritual and throw faith in there as well. Obviously I have a strong faith. Um, those foundations seem to make the, the rest of life great. I know too many people in business who are brilliant in business have had, I mean, I've had conversations with billionaires. They've [00:55:00] got billions in the bank, but their kids don't talk to them and their wives are restrained. And it's like, I think I'm wealthier. I think I'm happier. And that's pretty awesome, to be fair. So that's my story. Sharon: And I'd say if you are one of the people who are in that situation where you have got strained relationships, like I said before, that's, it's not the end of the story to know, um, God is a God of redemption and he's able to take the, the, the mess and stuff in our lives and bring something amazing and fantastic out of it. Uh, it's not, the whole, um, story of the Bible is not about how amazing we are. It's like how God comes to us in our mess. And that's the same for all of us. Um, yeah. And how God can transform those situations. So if you're in that situation, don't feel like all is lost and you've blown it. Um, bring it, bring it to God. Video: Yeah, absolutely do that because I don't sit here because I'm such [00:56:00] a clever bloke. Lemme just point that out, right? Um, I sit here because of the grace of God, uh, and he's been very, very gracious with us. Um, I'm aware of time. I feel like we're just scratching the surface as usual. Uh, and we could keep, keep on going. So we'll end Conversation Street right there. Let me give you a few notices. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, in case you don't know, we have recently launched our livestream podcast. Yes, you can now get the live stream direct to your mobile device or wherever you listen to your podcasts, through Apple, through Spotify, through Google Play. I think basically where you get your podcast from. Just go and search Crowd Church and we should pop up. Yes, we should. So, uh, the amazing thing is we launched the live stream on the podcast last week, which is a bit odd for a digital church. I get that we're a little bit behind on the times with this. Uh, but we've had a shed load of people [00:57:00] already subscribe and download, which is. Brilliant. So if you are listening to this on the podcast, it's great that you are with us. Great. That you could join us. Uh, and if you are able come join us on the live stream, it'll be great to see you here. Now next week, next Sunday. Do you wanna tell everyone what's happening next week? Babe? I'm asking this question known for You haven't got a clue. Sharon: I've got a famous idea. There'll be a talk, there'll be a aton of worship. Uh, there'll be Conversation Street. How am I doing? Video: Brilliant. Brilliant. Absolutely. Uh, and the talk is, uh, from Abby Sharples. Cool. If, if the schedule that John Farrington has done is correct next week is Abby Sharples, uh, on being a Christian. I'm actually hosting, it says here on my notes with Ian, do it. I just need to just double check with Ian that he's still available. Uh, but Ian is a very, very good friend of mine. Sharon: I was gonna say, I have to explain who these people are 'cause uh, no one's gonna know. Video: Well, why don't you explain her that. Sharon: Uh, so Ian Doer was, uh, well, is a friend that Matt has known for many years from uni, and he is now the vicar of the church in London. Video: Mm-hmm. Sharon: And Abby Sharples was part of the youth at church here and used to be in, um, the youth group that we run. Fabulous women. Uh, early twenties now, I'm guessing. Uh, great speaker. I really love listening to Abby. And who else did you mention? Was that it? Video: That's it. Um, yeah, I mentioned me, but you know, we don't need to talk about Sharon: me. Fabulous. Video: Yeah. Abby's next week. Abby, uh, as actually did some talks at Crowd before when it was, uh, the original church plant, Frontline city. Uh, she has done some talks, which were great actually. Yeah. And it was, um, Abby's talk on, uh, why she decided to be a Christian. I can't remember the exact title, why I decided to give up everything and follow Jesus or something like that. It was a great talk. She did. And we knew we'd hit something when [00:59:00] 500 people listened to that talk in the first week. So, um, which was fab and I was stoked for Abby. And, um, it all started as down this journey of being a digital church. So it's great that Abby is speaking. She's back for the summer holidays from her university time. Uh, so she's agreed to come talk to us, which is great. Absolutely lovely. Oh, John, I see John Farrington says yes. What does the Bible say about being a Christian next week with Abby Sharples? Uh, and he is adding some links to the podcast as we speak. Those links are also available on the websites, uh, which I can put up on the screen here. crowd.church Yes. In fact, can I do this? Matt: crowd.church? Video: Oh, love it. Absolutely love it. I just need to explain that I have an effects panel on my sound desk now, so, uh, that's why I do these stupid things. 'cause I can You Sharon: like the technical toys, don't you? Video: Yes. What's church? Without a lot of laughter, that's what I want to know. Uh, you have to have lots and lots of laughter. Listen, there are so many questions, which we didn't get to today, and I apologize for that. I appreciate this is a bigger topic. We may well end up doing a series on parenting, but not, uh, in the next few months. But we might do like a parenting course or a marriage course as well at some point soon. Keep, keep subscribed and we'll let you know more about that as we're coming along. Uh, we are starting a brand new series soon in September actually called Origin, uh, all About. Well, I'm, I'm not gonna actually no. We got this little teaser, it's called Origin. You'll find out what it's about. We're gonna tell you about it in the next few weeks. So, uh, make sure you, uh, like and subscribe to Crowd Church. If you go to our website, you can sign up for our emails newsletter. We will send that out to you without any problems. You can also reach out and connect to us via the website, which has also got our WhatsApp number on or via social media. If there's anything that you would like us to pray for or pray about, do get in touch. Always good to get your Prayer, Prayer requests. We do pray for you, uh, on a Wednesday night. Uh, normally me, Sharon, and Matt Crew, uh, we'll, we'll do that Prayer. Uh, if anybody else wants to join us on a Wednesday night, feel freedom, uh, as we do pray for those Prayer requests that come in. So, I think that is everything. Babe. Have I missed anything? Sharon: Not that I can think of. Video: No, no. And as soon as I finish the live stream, I'll go, oh, I should have said this. I know exactly what's gonna happen. So that's it from myself and Sharon. We're gonna end the live stream with another song. Please feel free to stick around, sing along if you are able join with us, uh, in the comments, come and say hi, bye. And all that sort of good stuff. It'd be great to hear from you. Uh, any final words from you? Me, darling? Sharon: No, just lovely to have you along with us. Uh, hope you have a good week. Video: Yeah, absolutely. And uh, my thanks to you sweetie for stepping in at the last minute. Rach Marshall was Judah here, be here hosting with us, uh, but has had, um, a work thing to deal with. Uh, she's helping one the family actually. She's been, uh, she's been an absolute legend, uh, is what Rach is doing. She's, um, she's helping out some very complex problems and so, uh, do think of Rach, uh, and pray for her, uh, if you are so able. Um, but yeah, thanks for stepping in at the last minute to fill in the breach. You're welcome. It's always awesome to lead the service with you. Right. That is it. Thank you so much for joining us. Like, say, stick around for the final worship song, uh, and we'll be back next week. That's it from us. Bye for now. Bye.