09: Higher Heights, Deeper Seas
20 October 2022
20 October 2022
Malcolm and Trish Morgan have spent their lives working for the church and Christian organisations across the globe, from South Africa to Northern Ireland, Greece and the UK. We hear how a life of constant movement and service tested and deepened their faith in equal measure. Malcolm now serves as senior pastor of St Andrews in Bath, while Trish has written Higher Heights, Deeper Seas, capturing their remarkable journey. This is a story about two people who said yes to God repeatedly and discovered that each yes led somewhere they could not have predicted.
01The Boy Who Fainted in Church on Purpose
Malcolm Morgan fainted in church one Sunday. He was fifteen, had been sent every week since the age of five, and had reached his limit. The primary school headteacher drove him home. It was the best thing that had happened to him in years.
"It was so good, I fainted the next three weeks."
The first faint was real. The next three were theatre. His father eventually laid hands on him, and he was, as Malc puts it, "healed immediately." At fifteen, he was given the choice to stop going. He took it and vowed never to enter a church door again.
The church of his childhood in Wales was dead. Twelve people scattered through a big building. No life, no light, no story of Jesus that made any sense. He had sat through it for ten years wearing a suit and tie, representing the family, and had never once heard the gospel.
"The only preacher I remember in all those years was a visiting speaker who talked about Dr Christian Barnard's first heart operation. That's it. That's the only one."
02A Welsh Boy and a Minister's Daughter
Malc grew up in Wales in a family that was religious by duty. His parents sent him and his brother to church every Sunday because that is what families did. He left at fifteen, spent the next few years wanting nothing to do with it, and arrived at university with a firm opinion about organised religion.
Then he met two Christians in his hall of residence.
"There were about ten of us in a group, and two of them were Christians. When they mentioned it, I started spouting off and making fun of them. They questioned me on that and got me talking about why."
Over three months, they opened the Bible to him. He had never read it that way before. "They introduced me to Jesus. I'd never heard the story of Jesus about salvation when I was going to church all those years. It was all new to me."
The moment of decision was not dramatic. It was a nineteen-year-old looking at his life and realising the pieces fit. "You're looking at life and what it's all about, and suddenly it all made sense. It was only a short step then to say, right, I'm committing to this."
Trish Morgan's story runs in a different direction entirely. She was raised in a Christian family. Her father was a minister. She was taken to church from birth. At seven, she watched a drama at an evening service and walked forward to make a commitment. An elderly man went forward at the same time.
"At seven, you just carry on living life, don't you?"
It was in her teens that Trish started asking harder questions. She interrogated what she believed, challenged her parents, and examined the evidence. "I could believe the archaeology proved some of the things the Bible was talking about. It was a decision as to whether Jesus really was who he said he was, or he was an absolute nutter and we've all been totally deluded."
She chose to believe. "I was particularly drawn to the way he elevated women. I thought, I can believe this. And I did."
03The Brother, the Warning, and the Cinema Story
Trish's brother Steve was at university with Malc. He was one of the friends who discipled Malc after his conversion, walking him through what it means to follow Jesus in the practical details of money, relationships, and work.
When Malc and Trish started seeing each other, Steve took his sister aside. He began listing Malc's shortcomings. There was a story about standing a girl up at the cinema. There were concerns about reliability.
Trish listened politely. "I said to my big brother, 'Thanks very much for that, Steve. But I think I quite fancy him. If it's all right with you, I'd like to see where this goes.'"
Back in the other room, Malc was nervous. "He was saying, 'What did he say? What did he say?'"
Trish told him that if he ever stood her up at the cinema, there had better be a good reason.
Steve was the best man at their wedding. The speech, one imagines, was thorough.
04Six Years on the Road With Heartbeat
They married a few years after university. Trish had trained as a nurse. Malc was training as a teacher. Then an opportunity arrived that neither had planned for. Trish joined a full-time Christian band called Heartbeat, and they spent six years touring the UK together, playing colleges, universities, schools, prisons, and churches.
"We were quite like a community. We all had our own homes in Malmesbury. People came and stayed. We all started having kids amongst us."
Trish describes them as frontrunners in the worship revolution that was reshaping church music at the time. "We were experimenting with the songs we were writing, wanting it to be extremely modern and contemporary. Anthemic stuff that people could sing together."
The legacy of those years still finds them. People approach them in airports, in restaurants, at church events. "They walk up and say, 'Can I ask you a question? Did you used to be in a band called Heartbeat?' And then we hear this amazing story of what happened when they went to one of our concerts."
At their current church in Bath, a man mentioned casually one evening that he had become a Christian at a Heartbeat concert in Bradford thirty years earlier. He is now married with children. Malc and Trish had never known.
"Who knew?" Trish says. "You just never know what God can plan and prepare."
05Greece, Brexit, and a Spanner in the Works
After Heartbeat, Malc and Trish spent decades in church leadership across the UK, including years in Lincoln and Liverpool. Their children grew up, went to university, found partners. A window of freedom opened.
They moved to Greece. For seven years, they built a missional community, learned the language, and worked with refugees arriving on the islands and the mainland. It was radical, uncomfortable, and exactly what they felt called to do.
Then Brexit happened.
"When Brexit was signed, we could only spend three months at a time in Greece. It totally messed up the whole purpose of what we were doing."
COVID finished what Brexit started. Two years of lockdowns split between nations destroyed the momentum they had built. "We found ourselves locked down in either Greece or England. We took it in turns to be locked down in different nations."
At the same time, Trish's mother became terminally ill, pulling them further towards the UK. The refugee camps were being turned into quarantine zones by the Greek government. The work was closing down.
"If you're in your thirties, you just think something will drop down. But when you're in your late fifties, early sixties, that's a very different conversation."
06The Door in Bath
They returned to the UK without a home, without a clear plan, and without the safety net of property ownership. They had spent their marriage trusting God for their finances and their future. This was the biggest test of that trust yet.
Then a job appeared. Saint Andrew's Church in Bath was looking for a new minister. They had advertised, failed to appoint, and were re-advertising. Malc had a conversation with the vicar. "He said, 'If you're the right person, we'll know that.'"
Malc went for it. "It wasn't what I would choose. An Anglican church. But you've opened this door, Lord, and I'll say yes and go through it."
The interview panel voted unanimously. The job came with a house. For a couple who owned nothing, it was provision in its most concrete form.
"We can see how, in the natural, there were moments when we sat there going, 'Okay, this work in Greece, we cannot justify staying.' What are we going to do? Where are we going to go? And then God provided."
07The Bus Driver and the Church That Says Yes
Malc tells a story about a bus driver he spoke to one morning. The driver was complaining about passengers who kept ringing the bell. Malc told him that buses would be great to drive if you did not have passengers. And churches would be great to run if you did not have people.
It is a joke, but it carries his core conviction. When asked for his one message, Malc does not hesitate. "I want to belong to a church that says yes to the opportunities in the community. If an opportunity comes up to serve a community in whatever capacity, I want us to say yes."
At Saint Andrew's, a team of twelve volunteers knocked on every door in the local estate, introducing themselves, explaining what the church does, and asking one question. "How can we help?"
Trish's message runs parallel but reaches further. "There's higher heights and deeper seas for us. Don't settle for too little. Don't settle for the status quo. When you start to step out of the comfort zone, God has been there for us. He has matched every step we've taken and then taken us further."
08How Malc and Trish Morgan Built a Life of Saying Yes
Malc fainted his way out of a dead church in Wales. Trish walked forward at seven and spent her teenage years interrogating whether she meant it. They met through a protective brother, toured the country in a band, raised twins while planting churches, rebuilt their lives in Greece, lost it all to Brexit and COVID, and started again in their sixties in Bath.
They do not own a house. They have never had a traditional career path. They have moved more times than most people change cars. And they are not finished.
"We've always said, let's make life an adventure with God," Trish says. "Wherever we've been, we say, 'Okay Lord, what do you want us to do here?' And whatever it is, we say yes."
09Hear the Full Story
Malc and Trish's conversation covers everything from meeting David Beckham to starting a missional community among Greek refugees to the parenting decisions that kept their family together through decades of upheaval. Listen to the complete episode of What's the Story on the Crowd Church website.
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welcome to what's the story my name is Matt Edmondson and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people and today I am chatting to the beautiful The Talented the all-round amazing people which are Malcolm Trish Morgan uh we're going to be talking about higher Heights deeper Seas living in Northern Ireland Greece Liverpool everywhere on the planet basically but before we get into that with Malcolm Trish let me explain to you that this episode is brought to you by crowd Church which is an online church and you can check out a whole bunch of live streams uh from online Alphas to questions like what does the Bible say about suffering to the Christmas episode that malc and Trish did for his own crowd Church a few years ago you can check out all of that on our website site at crowd.church yes crowd is an online church so do check it out the website www.crowd.church and sign up for the newsletter while you're there as each week we will email you the links from the podcast the notes the transcripts none of that spam nonsense but it's all directly to your inbox totally free and it's totally amazing now uh Malcolm Trish uh before I read your bio one thing that I do want to do because it says here in my notes let's give a shout out and I said to you guys uh before we started recording who do you want to give a shout out to and you guys said and why are we giving those uh well those cram is a person one of those I'm thinking of criminals who are a beautiful couple why are we giving them a shout out Haram just got his citizenship to become a UK citizen he's a refugee from Syria and arrived a few years ago in Britain and there's now goddess citizenship now yeah congrats Karen yeah Stoke for you man I remember being at their wedding uh a while ago it was a while ago now they've got uh I mean it's great that they've got the citizenship in fact let's do this the Steve Wright thing we talked about before we're so pleased for you cram so uh that's awesome man so guys listen welcome to the podcast let me read your bio right it says here that malc and Trish Morgan are a couple who have spent their lives working for the church and Christian organizations which includes a full-time band uh which we might want to get into that uh you've lived all over the world like I mentioned including South Africa Northern Ireland Greece and the UK uh malc is now the senior pastor of Saint Andrews in bath not bath we were debating that and Trish has recently written a book recounting some of her incredible some of their incredible fake Journeys this is a book here uh higher Heights and deep seas we're going to get into that there's one particular thing which I've underlined definitely want to get into that you can get that on Amazon you guys have been married if the notes are correct for 38 years have two kids and four grandkids so welcome to what's the story it's great to have you here guys really psyched great thanks Matt good to be with you yeah it's great to have you I was trying to think earlier on like how long I've known you and it must be when you guys moved to Liverpool that we met right 2013 yeah 2013 is that one yeah cheers yeah nine years nine years hey guys bye quick doesn't it it really does go by quick so nine years uh but you guys aren't in Liverpool anymore you're in like we said in the intro you're in bath now right uh uh bickering pastoring a church in bath yeah I'm the senior associate minister of an Anglican Church uh called Saint Andrews um on the edge of bath and uh brilliant bunch of people and enjoying every minute of it now did you grow up saying bath or is this something you're doing to fit in with the locals no down South we say bath I've been a Welsh man you know I'm down south This Bar and Trish are you Beth Or bath sure actually but probably leaves day's bath more Grass Grass Grass you know potato potato potato for anybody outside of the UK listening into the podcast uh why are we pronouncing words that are the same slightly differently there is a split in the UK there's a North divide split on how you pronounce certain words bath being one of them which is a beautiful town uh in the UK and if you're from south from you're from the south or more sun you tend to say bath whereas if you're more Northern you tend to say bath or grass rather than grass and so that's why we're just picking up on Regional accents but Mountain you're from Wales right you're not even you're not even North or South you're Welsh I'm Welsh um left Wales many many years ago he has brought up first 18 years in Wales yeah long time ago left there and uh never returned still got the accent though right yeah I can't get rid of it tried my best I like it oh it's awesome it is properly awesome it's one of my favorite accents of Welsh accent so don't ever lose it uh it's uh it's brilliant so guys great to have you here now um one of the things I like to ask on what's the story is about your sort of Faith journey in terms of how you came to Faith right and I know you both have quite different stories because we did the prequel and we chatted through it um but you you both have quite different stories right so who wants to go first out the two of you yeah good I'll go first in Wales I was brought up um been sent to church by my parents my parents were religious and it was the duty to be sent to church every Sunday in a suit and tie the whole picture and I hated it from the age of five onwards to 15 we were sent every week to represent the family the church who went to in Wales was dead there's about 12 people in it scattered throughout a big building and it was it didn't make any sense to me whatsoever got so bad what's actually about that um I fainted in church one Sunday I literally fainted the primary head teacher driven home best thing that happened to me in fact it was so good I painted the next three weeks you you'd figured so the first faint was genuine the second three were fake we're fake yeah and my dad basically laid hands on me and I got healed immediately yeah 15 I was given the choice to leave if I wanted to and I did and vowed never to enter a church door again wow in it was dead there was no light yeah yeah so what happened what happened then then because obviously I mean you're leading a church now so yeah something obviously happened in between right oh at University and got saved at University met some friends when you first started University grounding groups and there was about 10 of us in a group and two of them were Christians okay and it was when they mentioned that I started spouting off and making fun of them and basically they questioned me on that and got me talking about why and yeah over a period of number of weeks they introduced me to Jesus I'd never heard the story of Jesus about salvation when I was at going to church all those years and um they introduced me to Jesus I discovered it for myself and that was uh that I was totally different lifestyle wow wow that's crazy you can go to church all those years and never actually hear the gospel or the story of Christ right you know I look back and the only preach I remember was um a thicker coming and he spoke about Dr Christian Barnard's first heart operation and talking about whose heart was it that's the only preacher I remember in all those crazy wow wow wow so you go to UNI you meet up with some Christian friends and they basically suck you in over a period of time yeah they opened the Bible to me I'd never read the Bible like that um and over a period of three months got me talking about Jesus and who he was and why he died and it was all new to me I had no idea so so what was it that made you um I'm curious because you became a Christian sort of a similar age that I did by the sounds of things and so what was it then at that age that sort of Drew you into going yes this is real yes this makes sense for me um I guess it was my again you know you're 19 years of age you're looking at life and what it's all about and the way the introducer was so good it wasn't pushed to me but we talked about issues and talked about who Jesus was and and why he came and died and he suddenly inflict it all made sense and um is only a short step then for me to say right I'm committing to this and it started my faith Journey off well fantastic fantastic I think you're right there is a point isn't there where you're faced with that Truth where you're and you kind of decide well if this is real I need to do something about it I can't just I can't just say it's true and then not do anything about it right you're kind of confronted with this a little bit uh and so and you know the old story of the you know what if you step out tonight in front of a bus where would you go and I think that was one of the questions I was asked as I realized that yeah I can't put off making decision it's it's you either Choose Or Not So it's interesting how that question worked for you for me it used to really wind me up well yeah it used to what happens tonight if you die I don't know leave me alone stop asking me crazy questions like that used to really wind me up yeah it's good so Trish what was your story then growing up um a very different one to Max um I was raised in a Christian family my father was a minister of a church um and so therefore I was taken along to church well right from the very word go but I was about seven and I remember going to an evening service one week and they had a drama and the drama um was very effective in my opinion I was only seven but I realized at the end of the drama that I wanted to make a commitment to Jesus so I went forward with an elderly man he also went forward um and we sort of made a commitment to to become a Christian and I think at seven you're young and you just carry on living life don't you and being raised in a Christian family and it really wasn't until I got into my teens that I started to think one more time about what I believed why I believed it asked my parents some really difficult questions um but came to that conclusion you know what there were certain things I couldn't get away from I believed in the stories in the Bible I could believe the archeology proved some of the things that the Bible was talk talking about and that it was just a decision as to either Jesus really was who he said he was or he was an absolute Nutter and we've all been totally deluded and you know that kind of thing so um I thought you know I see so much goodness in this person and and and the things that he did and the things that he said and the way he elevated women particularly I was drawn to and I thought I can believe this and I did uh when I became a teenager and to be honest I've never looked back that's interesting isn't it are you two very different sort of backgrounds uh in in so that how did you guys get together at University um Trisha's brother was at University with me yes began Trish getting on to visit him and Steve introduced us um so yeah that's what we first met okay so was Trisha's brother one of the mates that led you to Christ or was you to somebody you got to know he was from the mates who um then discipled me for the next few years more he didn't lead me to the Lord at that time but um we became good friends and he was he discipled me really well he the next few years so for the good folks listening that may not know um what you mean when you say he disciple me just explain what that means yeah he talked me through life following Jesus and what it means and how you live your life therefore how you handle money how you handle relationships work the whole lot you um it's a teaching about how to follow Jesus that's my older brother I do also to say what discipled Malcolm for a while um that when Malcolm and I decided after about a year 18 months later to date my brother was rather concerned and he took me to one side and he started to tell me all the bad things he's very unreliable and he started talking his story of the time that Malcolm had you know stood a girl up at a cinema and not turned up and all that and there and he had his private conversation with me and that was on the other room and I left I said to my big brother thanks very much for that Steve I said but I think I quite fancy him see if it's all right with you I'd like to see where this goes back he's a bit nervous and he's saying what did he say what did he say and I said if you ever stop me up at the cinema wow that there was a good reason but yeah that's really fast is pretty yeah that's brilliant I know that was that actually Trish you answered my question because I'm thinking okay so I'm think because I have a daughter Zoe and I was thinking well if Josh um was discipline somebody uni or Zach you know someone who just become a Christian and they met Zoe and decided to start dating so I would expect my boys to take that guy aside and have a very strong conversation with them and so I was curious to know if Steve did this but it sounds like he didn't talk to you malc he talked to Trish and tried yeah that's right but you know he did okay Stephen turned up he was the best man in our wedding so the best man's speech must have been brilliant well yeah thank you yeah [Laughter] it's fantastic that's fantastic so he we were real at University he knew my weaknesses and all the rest oh no it's great isn't it and yeah it's really cool it's and then I find like at Uni I became lifelong friends at Uni with a couple of guys and we're still friends in fact I'm gonna go see one of them tomorrow down in London um a guy called Tony who's been on the podcast uh his wife's basically been on what's the story talking about dealing with cancer he's been on crowd church but we met at Uni and we're still mates now and there's something about this time isn't there at Uni when you're young in your faith where getting around other Christian people just seems like the really smart thing to do and it it brings these sort of lifelong friendships doesn't it yeah and I think the discipleship that happens there you're at the same age as the last time where people are the same age are together when you leave University you go to jobs yeah that's true last time that age group is together I think it's a brilliant time to disable and and get Jesus known you know some of the University work Fusion do it universities superb so yeah really good point so you guys meet at Uni you start dating when did you get married oh well yeah about three or four years later after because I was working in London I was like I trained as a nurse so I was a nurse he was training as a teacher um and so we sort of and then I traveled a lot and then I joined the band so it wasn't very easy we weren't sort of um you know um in the same town around the corner from one another dating we we we took quite a lot of time apart because traveling and and things so yeah good few years probably about four from the first time that we met to the time that we finally got married okay and tell me about the band then um the bandwidth full-time Christian band at that time I mean I loved music I um I was happy to play Wherever Whenever um but I just got this fantastic opportunity um to join a full-time band and Christian band they're called heartbeat and I joined them in the early 80s and I traveled all over the UK we played loads of different venues you know colleges universities schools prisons you name it and churches we did that too um we recorded we wrote songs um and yeah it was a fantastic training good foundational thing for me as a songwriting musician to had him and at some point we got married and melk joined the team as the first time first non-musical musical member yeah worker so at an emcee event so when we did events that would be the MC the youth worker um and we so we traveled together then for about six years was it six years wow oh wow yeah there we go well so you only married couple traveling around for six years doing the Christian music youth worker stuff it must have been enough an absolute riot surely it's a great time some amazing Stories and some incredible things we saw we were based in malmesbury and Wiltshire the team were there we had our own homes um we people came and stopped diverse there was shared homes but it was a brilliant time yeah very formative I think in terms of Ministry for us even you know like we were late 20s um and you know we then all started to have kids amongst us so we were we were quite like a community to be honest within um we all went to different churches if you wanted to but we didn't get much time because we were constantly on the road constantly at churches leading their worship um that kind of thing so we were quite four Front Runners to the worship Revolution that happened you know and um so mixing the Contemporary rock music kind of thing to worship songs which before there'd been a a real you know a division between nice Hemi songs and so we were um experimenting I guess with the songs that we were writing and wanting it to be extremely modern and contemporary and writing songs that that people could sing as well together anthemic kind of stuff so yeah um fantastic experience we saw like Matt says incredible things and we still meet people anywhere around the world and that's their lie that walk up to us and goes can I ask you a question did you used to be in a band called heartbeat and if you say yes then we hear this amazing story of what happened when they went to one of our concerts how they got saved how they God did an amazing miracle in their lives and their families and and it's it's really exciting and it carries on to this Bay it's fantastic that's that's an amazing Legacy isn't it that's uh we in the church we like to use the analogy of seeds planted and you just never know when God's Gonna bear fruit with those seeds to you and and here you are very humbling as well yeah it was lives 20 years later yeah how influenced them at that time yeah that is yeah crazy just uh well that must thrill you when you actually when they come up and say things like that you're just like Oh Marcus I mean to go full circle at present we uh in the summer we um spent an evening around a couple's house at the new church that malc is now the senior minister of and the guy just offered the fact that um he became a Christian at one of our concerts in um in Bradford and even and I never knew that and they and now he's married he's had kids um you know and I mean we're now fast forwarding about 30 odd years and you're certainly thinking well who knew that's amazing yeah it is great absolutely fantastic privilege yeah it is it's one of those things isn't it when you listen stories like that it Thrills you and you're really excited because you just when you do stuff you don't always see God's hand at work at that point in time do you you uh whether it's doing a concert whether it's writing a book or doing a podcast or don't assuming you don't know you can you can see certain things but what you see I think is very limited compared to the Eternal work that sometimes God's doing and here you are 20 years later meeting these people and you're just like oh my goodness really and I think that's the that's the most exciting thing about having an adventure of faith in God is that you have no idea what God can plan and prepare and purpose for for you you just don't know you couldn't write it if you tried but God does have that and he does have that in mind you know that's what he says in the scripture we believe that from the Jeremiah the plans and purposes he has to prosper us and give us a future and give us a hope and that kind of thing is what God has done and will do it now and we're just saying yeah they were the good old days well actually we believe that we got a new story to tell today which then we don't have to heart back to oh remember 40 years ago it's great when we get a moment but we can tell you story after Story of stuff that's happened even now you know so on Sunday um retired Minister was speaking at our church and he said how they opened a school up in Uganda and it was in the rural district and you know they thought they were just helping a few poor children and he went back there recently and got speaking to an ex-people who'd started a movement in the country um rebuilding a lot of the schools in the whole the whole country he says what you don't realize is you were changing a nation what you did change the nation and we might never get to hear some of those some of that fruit out here see that but God did work yeah and you've got to believe that oh it's incredible isn't it one of the things that's always uh inspired me about you too and I I do think you are a super inspiring couple is this inability to rest on what happened yesterday and the the desire to go God what have you got for today and where do I need to be planning to be tomorrow right subject to me still being here and you're kind of like you've you've you've always had that kind of drive that kind of desire to see that where did that come from was that something you've had since day one of marriage was it something that you've kind of had to fight for we've always said let's make life an adventure with God and wherever we've been we say Okay Lord what do you want us to do here and whatever it is we will say yes to and for me it's I like to belong to a church that says yes we can help in in the society doing this or helping the community doing that whatever it is I want us always to say yes we can do that and I think that what we've always tried to do I think over the years we've realized that part of I think it's evolved to be honest you know when we were young and married we just got involved in anything and everything but slowly but surely I think that um what you can do well comes up to the top so I think we're good we're catalysts for change we come in and we ask questions why are we doing it like this how can we do it better than what's already done um or do we need to stop something and start something brand new so we like to Pioneer um be Innovative in in some areas um and always try and make what we're trying to say um as accessible as possible no pull back all the religiosity stuff away from it and and stop over complicating the good news of Jesus it doesn't have to be so high Brown highfaluting it can be say look it is everyday accessible this good news of Jesus and so that's what we aim to do isn't it doesn't it take your everyday ordinary lives yeah and admit them to God Romans 12. from the message I was going to say which translations that yeah it's a brilliant version yeah yeah absolutely I and I think it's in fact it's one of the sort of the verses that Sharon and I have held on as a married couple be transformed by the ruling of your minds right and that whole um don't let this stuff weigh you down just keep going keep pressing I you know pause I press on towards the goal of the I would call I forget which is past and I press on and you read language like that and we don't talk like that so much these days do we but it's it's inspiring but I am aware right that if I can draw some comparisons you've got the Apostle Paul using language like that which is quite pioneering uh quite let's go take the hill kind of language you're using language like we're good at being a catalyst for change we're pioneering how can I put this delicately not everybody appreciates that call on people right it's that phrase isn't it actually the Apostle Paul is probably not going to be welcome in most western churches if he was around today yeah so have you how have you dealt with that tension that because there must have been a tension that calling that wrestle on your lives and actually the reaction of people on occasion yeah yeah I think we just want to belong to a church that's relevant in the community and I think a lot of churches have become irrelevant um you know they have no part almost a plane in the community anymore and that angers us it annoys me because I want the church to be involved in whatever the where whichever Community it's in so yeah we get misunderstood we get um some criticism but for me for the joy set before us you can do with it so I call a bus earlier on this morning and this bus driver was in full flow he was waiting to be changed over and he was standing there at the platform of the bus and he was just talking about his schedule for the day and so I was asking him questions and I said I didn't realize that you went on a different route now I thought you stayed in the same no no I've now got to get a different kind of bus and you know and later on he was getting us and I think you've got a few things you want to get off your chest dude because he was really going for it and he said well to be realistic said it's the passengers and when they keep ringing that Bell and then we were laughing and I said I said buses would be great to drive wouldn't they if you didn't have passengers and churches would be great to run if you didn't have people but we are very human and it's full of people and yeah it's not easy especially when they know somebody news coming in and straight away people thinking oh don't touch this this is what I do and it's it's worked and quite honestly if it's worked well it we keep it we don't go in and go that's rubbish we're going to scrap everything you know like some politicians we could think of like um we we come in we we wait to see what works we all know what works and the people working in it we don't change things for the sake of change but then we think right actually having looked how that works I think we can actually improve on that and do this a bit better um so I think it is managing people managing the expectations um trying to make people feel there is functional role for them but in places where they are going to shine best so you know there's we all know that when you go into some places you're thinking you know what you are a square Pagan around hole there that is not working for anybody at all you or the others so let's see if we can fit you somewhere else where it does work and where you can shine and where things can be better so that's the difficulty Matt I think sometimes and it's how we've done that over the years um maybe we've made some mistakes oh yeah over the years on in attempting that but we do believe in transitioning and transformation and in doing that sometimes no pain no gain yeah interesting oh well done uh so let's talk about then some of the challenges that you guys I mean you've had to deal obviously with people uh this often said that you know without people there wouldn't be problems um like you said the passengers on the bus I love that analogy uh so what are some of the big challenges that you have you guys have faced as a couple in life and really curious how God bought you through those yeah well recently for instance um be working out in Greece spent seven years out there building community and then brexit happens and Toby throws a spanner in our in our future all of a sudden when brexit was signed we could only spend three months at a time out in Greece then three months in the UK three months back out in Greece and it totally messed up the whole purpose of what we're doing doing there and we did and also what was I going to do yeah was the worst I mean brexit was the beginning but covert completely stopped it because we found ourselves four months locked in either in Greece or in England we took it interns to be locked down in different nations um but two years of that plus brexit just really pulled apart what we were trying to do moving forward it took away the momentum to be honest and all of a sudden you're thinking six months in England what do I do at that time I can't it can't be part-time in Greece and that's it so you know it's it meant change and we weren't sure what it meant and just over a year ago we're back in the UK really praying about our future what what does it mean our time in Greece has come into an end how do we manage that and all of a sudden this job appears in inside Andrew's Church they're looking for a new Minister they'd advertised and hadn't appointed and they're having to re-advertise and then I got told about it and I just had a chat with the vicar of the of the main church and he said well if you're the right person we'll know that and I go for the job and it opens up okay Lord I it wasn't what I would choose an Anglican church but you've opened up this store and I would say yes and I'll go through it and it provided us with the home because we don't own anything so we were renting in Greece and you know um you know praise God this job comes with a house and so therefore we've been provided now the house with the job um and we can just see how in the natural there were moments we sat then going okay so this work is we cannot justify staying out in Greece and being supported and getting everybody around us and the the refugee work was closing because the government had made the camps quarantine you know areas it just was closing down we thought well you know we can see it's closing down what are we going to do where are we going to go what's going to happen and you know maybe if you're in your 30s you just think ah you're something will drop down but when you're you know late 50s early 60s that's a very different conversation to be having um and you know to keep living like the way we have always chosen to live since we've married that we would trust God for our futures for our finances for for whatever um was a big step for us and and yeah it dropped so well now did the interview unanimously saying hey you're the right person for this job great for Saint Andrews great for us and it's just been a real blessing hasn't it yeah yeah and I think it's it's like Paul he wanted to go one area and the Holy Spirit stopped him yeah and the next day he got a call into Greece and sometimes you could say okay this is what's opening I'll go through this door and see what's on the inside yeah it makes life an adventure and that's what we've always done isn't it yeah it does doesn't always go the way we want it to no no you know sometimes we've gone about it in a very convoluted way but we get there like life isn't linear is right it's not here we go it's the Ziggy zaggy and that's how life is for us as well we're not any different to anybody else we have all those we have our difficulties um but we put God into all of that and say help us and if we need to get help ourselves Beyond asking the Lord we'll ask for their help because life isn't easy uh it is challenging but we just have to say okay today's a new day let's see what we can make and um you know adventure together on it you know we've got Twins and one of the biggest issues whether we have to make sure our Twins were safe and happy when we moved they moved with us and something we had to make sure that they were well looked after as well we didn't want to lose our kids on our journey yeah I'm with us on that adventure and they did and they they were brilliant over the years shout out to Aaron and Freya we love you so how did um that's a really interesting point right so you guys have done the you know the moving around the church plants the the missionary work in Greece the stuff with the refugees in Greece we get time we'll touch on that because that's incredible you do all this amazing and stuff and yet in the middle of this you've also got family right you've got the kids you've got the grandkids how did you I guess how did what were some of the intentional things that you did as parents to to keep that family strong and you know how did you do that we were yeah we were in Lincoln we were both working in the you know for the church we were I was an elder I was looking obviously in the youth the young adults um Patricia's in the worship and one day our twins turned around to us and said they're about seven or eight years old you're not both going out again are you immediately and that made us stop we realized that they would begin to suffer from the work we were doing so we re-evaluated we stopped and we took one weekend a month where we just spent time with them as as a family I didn't take any books to travel we didn't take any extra things ourselves uh we either stayed you know at home in Lincoln and we did Saturday a day out or we'd do something on the Sunday so we were home or we went away for the weekend um we just wanted the kids to know that one weekend a month was family weekend so that they knew that we weren't forever spending every minute of our day um with other people and for other things so I think they needed to know they were important to us and they were they were our first primary concern that through everything that we did um our kids we didn't put them off following Jesus if you're in an office and your kid walks into your office you turn away from your desk and you give them time first to show them and then you work so we've tried to we've tried to put that yeah we found care for the family very helpful um as we were you know bringing up our kids parenting you know Rob Parsons has some fantastic um things to mention about the 60-minute father and all of that stuff being present and I think that's it isn't it it is giving your kids that that focus and attention and I guess maybe the lockdown made everybody reawaken one more time about family and and the time that you hadn't had that you suddenly had when lockdown occurred um and a lot of re-evaluation went on there as well didn't it but so I don't know we didn't get every um decision right but certainly on the big ones I think we we feel at peace with the cause that we've made over the years and now our kids have grown up they're married got their own kids some sales little ones Chinese girls serving in in their church it was great yeah it's good and do you do you do I mean I've my kids are not at the same sort of age you know uh um but I'm I don't think I'm that far off and you and you kind of I'm curious to know right you go from this phase of being parents to being grandparents um what's that like if you can describe it what the gap between all the phase like because we had nearly nine years when our kids had done uni they win jobs they'd find their life Partners that's why we looked at Greece because Greece for us was such a big ask it was like wild to go into a culture where we didn't speak the language to begin with anyway um and do something very radical and see if we could start a missional community out in Greece because there was so little of that kind of thing um but we had this opportunity of seven eight nine years where our little our kids didn't have little ones and so therefore you know our kids were just getting on with life and growing up and you know they didn't need us around so much so we felt we had this wind of opportunity and I think a lot of people in their 50s and 60s can have that moment if they want where they think hey there's many more years for us and energy and I think why don't we do something you know and I know that there are many Ministries and Charities aching to have people of maturity and wisdom go and say we'll come and journey with you for years even if you don't do seven like we did you know um so we took that and then slowly but surely towards the end of this the first seven years that we were there our kids started to say hey we're having a kid we're having a little one um that got hard because suddenly we wanted to be back in the UK more available for them more available to be supportive and at the same time um you know particularly my mum she became um yeah terminally ill so obviously that really started to pull me back to the UK quite a lot um so you know yeah and you know just love our grandchildren so much that the best thing ever because you can spend a day with them and get lost in their world and the rest of the world all the issues problems you forget about for the day and there's such there's so it's a privilege to spend time with yet another generation coming through they're only Chinese right now we've got four under four but when you do the Bedtime Stories here we go again let's get out the book Let's Get Out The Storybook about Jesus and their little minds and hearts are just taking it all in is precious yeah I imagine it is it must be quite fascinating watching your kids raise kids yeah being parents oh yeah and and biting your lip at times there's that sound of my heartbreaking that's what that was I always found uh I don't I can't imagine your kids would be like this but I I always found that every generation of parents newborn parents that I've come across feels like they know how to parent better than their parents and that their level of wisdom understanding is so much further Advanced right so when we had kids and you know it's very different obviously to when mum had me I mean technology was different and all that sort of stuff and I would I would in my head I'd be like so therefore whatever advice mum gives me is obviously not relevant 25 years later I now sit back a few years after that and think what a plonker I think I think today there's all these um books available and advice yeah it just keeps changing all the time especially you know Health visitors and that and you think well you didn't do so bad you know when we were meeting you and everything else and and now look so yeah it is different but you know it is learning to let them raise their own children we don't live close to our kids either which is a bit of a shame at times especially during lockdown it was awful we were on our own in England um nowhere near our children but you know we do get to see them far more than we would have done now had this in Greece and that's a real blessing and that was something very deliberately and intentional that we've um done and wanted to happen and because they're not Chinese forever no that's very true very true so so you've obviously faced some whole massive challenges and yet here you are you're still going your kids are still friends with you you know and you're obviously in love with your grandkids I mean by all by all my measuring standards that that that equals success right and you're and you're you've still got hearts for Christ God's still doing great things through you I everything just sort of checks and you look at that and go that's that's incredible so if I could ask you to distill your you know I think every Christian has kind of one message don't they that they sort of come back to time and time again something that's dear and important to them what would yours be would it be the same would you have slightly different ones between the two of you probably slightly different for me I I want to belong to a church that says yes to the opportunities in the community and if an opportunity comes up to serve a community in whatever capacity or a council I want us to say yes we can do that unless there's a very good reason not to because I want us to be involved in in the community in the city we're in so for me it's the church that likes to say yes I think that reflects well to the stories you've got in the book especially the South Africa chapter the 94.7 bike race where we said yes on one thing and it was just like a gift that kept on giving it was incredible time of that so there's there's moments like that isn't there I think for me it will be what the book is saying that there is more there's higher Heights there's deeper Seas for us to have don't settle for too little don't set before the status quo everybody tends to like the comfort zone we all like the comfort zone but you know when you start to step out of that comfort zone all I can say for me and for milk is that God has been there for us he has he has matched every step that we've taken and then taken us further and blessed us and and looked after us and helped us no end um and so therefore I would say to people you know don't just sit back and settle for the sake of settling you know some people just can live in the same house do the same job live in the same street for the rest of their lives okay great if that's what you really feel meanwhile you can affect your neighborhood and make a difference that's fine and not everybody can do what we've done but at the end of the day I do think if you if you know God and you want to follow him you want to be obedient I'm pretty sure God's saying there's an adventure for you to have you just got to trust me you've got a baby and you've got to take those risks and their wants of Faith yeah they won't let you down yeah love that because they say often don't they that faith is spelled r-i-s-k or is it the way around risk is spelled f-i-a-th yeah yeah and so I think it's a it's a brilliant um it's a brilliant thing to say I guess a question for you mark then uh you want to be part of a church that says yes yeah I grew up in a generation that um I think saw opportunity and seized it that was that was sort of what happened and this is so when you say we see an opportunity uh we say yes we see a need we say yes we get involved and I I remember hearing the story of the guy that started kids club whose Name Escapes Me Now the chat from New York Bill somebody or other wasn't it um and he said that whole Ministry started just because he saw a need and he was like well no one else is doing it so therefore I'll go and sort it out and um he got involved and amazing things happened as a result but there's a there's a I can hear a thousand people listening to the podcast going well hang on a minute does that not lead to burnout but we almost want to put safeguards around that statement which I think you must find deeply frustrating yes I think the church could do much more than it's currently doing but the capacity to do more um and I think every church is struggling with volunteers to get on doing the church work the the kids work the grace work at present but there's a hurting World outside and perhaps our Focus needs to be more outward looking and for me you know one of the guys in the church said I want us to visit all the houses in the estate so they need to make our name known that they know what Landers is doing we said yeah let's do it and as we gathered the team together 12 of them and they go out knocking in every door in the estate introducing themselves and what the church is doing and how can we help them and it's been some brilliant conversations so I think it just needs a good team around you and yes you you need your rest you need your recovery time it is tiring um but it's the it's for what's ahead of you no it's um I mean maybe people these days don't want the inconvenience and you know um people choose these days it is a choose isn't it and then and we're we're in a sort of a consumer culture um and there's other things that take people's attention away from from church and whereas maybe 20 30 years ago you could have thought oh you'll burn yourself out because you're doing too much for church I don't know if that's the same anymore I think people might burn themselves out doing life because they're too busy trying to spin too many plates yeah do you need to make a decision we made a decision um that there were some things that we weren't going to do anymore um shows that we could you know ease a little bit easier on our kids and on our family but we didn't come so drastically down that we felt we weren't serving the kingdom and we weren't following what God wanted in our lives and um for us it has been sacrifice um it has been inconvenient it hasn't always been easy but I I wouldn't trade it for the world because for what we have gained and what we see um I think everything has been worth it yeah I think is that scripture isn't it store up yourselves Treasures in Heaven yeah yeah yeah we do and how we serve the Kingdom so yeah I hope that's a Jacuzzi because like I really hope I just want to slide down the streets in my socks that's all I'm saying I just want to go and keep on going um episode so I I find for me one of the constant challenges in life with what I do because I I run a church but I run a business you know and I I'm I feel like I'm juggling 25 000 plates sometimes and that's just the nature of God's call on my life and okay I'm it's but I find sometimes I'm off I often pursue a lifestyle rather than pursuing God now what I mean by that is I spend a lot of my time some would say quite rightly focused on paying the mortgage for a bigger better house or a bigger better car or all that sort of stuff and you become so embroiled in that that you that you almost stop pursuing God and pursuing God becomes quite difficult to do and that and then that leads to the statements of why I'm getting burnt out I I can't do home group tonight because you know life over here this Pursuit and don't get me wrong I appreciate that life is hectic and crazy in business I'm not saying this to condemn people I'm saying it because it's a challenge to me often what am I pursuing am I pursuing lifestyle or am I pursuing God and those choices to deliberately downgrade My Lifestyle to create capacity and space to pursue God yeah and not easy decisions to make at the time but they are life-giving over a period of time right absolutely yeah I and you know we say this you cannot out give God In Time Talent OR treasure you can't um and we have known that throughout our lives and um you think oh you know I can I afford the time well yeah you can actually if you pursue God you pursue his kingdom God will give that time back to you and then you really enjoy the rest when it comes and rest is important we're not saying go Full Throttle 100 seven days a week we're not you everybody needs the moment where they take a breath and they rest um and we've learned how do you guys do that how do you guys do Sabbath we we tend to go our way for a day if we can get out from the city um we try to be very good about our phones not answering them or leaving them and that kind of stuff um because that's not helpful it's a distraction at times um so we tend to do that or if we we stay here we'll go for a war we do you know we try and do something which is deliberately more restful than you know from work we value the day off and the week that we get yeah and we treasure that and make sure we do a rest yeah brilliant can I ask you a question about your book I'm aware of time so I want to get my question in so I was reading through your book which arrived the other day so I have to be honest I've not read the whole thing but I'm I'm sick 10. um so uh and just to plug the book higher highs deeper sees my faith Adventures by Trish Morgan you can I got this on Amazon it arrived the next day so I'm just going to read a section here which says I believe in miracles uh uh in my mid eight I won't get into what that is I also recount stories like the times I met influential politicians for instant meeting Martin McGinnis just before in uh in capital letters that handshake with her majesty the queen in 2011. this is the bit I want to ask you about spending a day with David Beckham filming with the BBC for a show called live and kicking which featured my two kids is up there as an amazing story too and then you go into a paragraph which doesn't explain the David Beckham thing so I'm like hang on a minute tell me about David Beckham that's a Prelude you've just read is it yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm not there's a chapter in the book yeah that's that's oh is it does it does it come later please Lincoln it's called Lincoln David Beckerman the BBC okay stories how we've met um celebrities oh yeah page 33 okay yeah and um you know I mean yeah and um you know you said something at the very beginning and you're absolutely right we are just Everyday People there's nothing special about malcolmi at all and everyday people can have extraordinary moments it's as simple as that that's what higher Heights deeper season is all about um and you know sometimes he has given us incredible opportunities to stand in front of very influential people and just you know feel the prod guns go on set you know um and other times we sat with the most broken of people who have absolutely nothing um in a in a camp in a tent in in Greece and either wherever that is whatever we are doing we have been very content to do what God has called us to do wherever that is um and so yeah so yeah the book is quite and a smorg's board of stories and events and at the very end is a QR code and if you scan your camera over the QR code it will take you to a Dropbox of photos to just back up everything we have said there's photos of almost fantastic so there we go yeah in case I've been on a bit of a delusional trip Heidi Baker from Mozambique who said just be Jesus to the next person you meet and we've tried to follow that and um you know if we're in a restaurant and you know as the waitress serving us we'll talk to the names we'll ask the name conversation and find out about them and offer to pray for them that's easy to do yeah yeah fantastic pieces yeah absolutely well let me say that you guys have been uh absolute Legends and I've loved to get I've Loved getting to know you over the years and I've always been super super inspired by you guys so thank you for coming onto the podcast if people want to connect with you if they want to reach out how what's the best way to reach Trish and Mount Morgan um the best way probably is by email there's a great adventures in God at gmail.com that's one way of getting hold of us and then really find me on Facebook it's Trish Morgan singer songwriter and other titles um yeah find it find us on Facebook that way and that's probably the best if you want to listen to any of my music because you know we've alluded to me being in a band in songwriting you can get me on Spotify you can find me on YouTube you know all those places where I don't get paid very much but yeah but go anyway that gives me 0.03 of a penny but I'm not big excellent and of course it goes without saying if you're in bath or bath go visit Saint Andrews you'd be so welcome and yeah and um we do miss Frontline Church in Liverpool and um all the friends that we made in that period of time and and you met that pioneered the crowd Church um we just love the DNA of those people and when we were in Greece we felt very well supported and cheered on by them and so yeah we are now in a different season in a different city but we still feel a heart connection to you guys thank you God bless you no it's great let me ask you one final question which I forgot to ask before I asked how people get in touch with you um imagine for a minute right you're at the Oscars you get your big award the crowds are cheering everyone's going mad yeah I'm out yeah go go go go go go uh and you say you still you you open a piece of paper and you would say I would like to thank I don't know a family member Mentor authors podcast whatever it is who do you think and why well what a question over the years there's been various people who've spoken into our lives um we've been under some amazing pastors John Harding at Frontline Church is one of them just been so supportive of us I did in the book I have actually done a thank you list because it's hard once you start saying thank you to one person you think oh I didn't say thank you to them there are plenty of people we could honestly stand and say thank you thank you thank you um we've had an amazing prayer support of people we had amazing um Trustees of the charity that we ended up um starting LP The Hope UK was a charity um that supported us all the way through our Greek time we had Trustees for that they were incredible so you know we've got a big shout out to many people I would I would love to you know I dedicated the book to the memory of my parents both of them are now in heaven um but also you know to our grandchildren but my kids were amazing in letting Malcolm and I go all these years and do the adventure that we've had we've obviously that they came with us for the first 18 years but we went on after that and um we're grateful for the fact that they they just let us we're so open-handed and let us be the mum and dad that weren't necessarily the people that lived around the corner so there's a lot of people to thank isn't there and and we're just grateful for all the different people at the different times of our lives at the walk to Journey with us and some have walked a journey now with us for a very very long time so uh hopefully I've honored those people in the book in every chapter when you see you think oh you know so yeah fantastic fantastic well malcol Trish thank you so much for joining us here's a story uh that's great you guys are absolute Legends stay inspiring stay Legends uh honestly brilliant yeah I have no doubt I've no doubt uh so that was Trisha Matt Morgan big thanks to them you can get all the info and show notes from today's podcast for free at crowd.church www.church uh or if you'll send it to our newsletter that will be emailed direct to your inbox if you're not signed up head over to the website and sign up to it remember to also check out crowd online church we like live stream every Sunday 6PM and we would love to see you and meet you on the live stream in the comments come and say how's it come and say hello all the information for the live stream is also on our website we stream 6PM here in the UK which is 1pm Eastern Standard Time and there's a little link on there which will tell you what time that is for you in the world uh crowd is just a digital Church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life just like milk just like Trish on that Journey we are a community a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow and you are welcome at crowd Church be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from because we've got just we've got some great stories lined up some great guests coming on just like Mel just like Trish sharing their Journey of Faith and I don't want you to miss any of them and in case no one has told you yet today dear listener Uh Oh wrong screen let's try that one there we go you are awesome yes you are now what's the story is produced by crowd Church you can find our entire Archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app the team that makes this show possible is Sarah Bain on George McQuaid Josh catchpole Estella Robin and Tim Johnson uh theme song was written by Josh Edmondson and as I said the transcript and show notes are available online at crowd.church now that's it from me that's it from Malcolm Trish thank you so much for joining us it has been an absolute pleasure I will see you next time bye for now
