The Power of God's Love: Breaking Free from Depression and Self-Harm

hey there and welcome to what's the story we're an inquisitive bunch of hosts on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from Everyday People in doing that we get the privilege of chatting with amazing guests and have the opportunity to delve into their faith Journey the hurdles they've overcome and the life lessons they've learned along the way if you enjoy our podcast don't forget to subscribe and sign up for our Weekly Newsletter at our website what's Theory podcast.com it's your direct line to the latest episodes and detailed show notes delivered straight to your inbox what the story is brought to you by crowd Church who fully understand that stepping into a traditional Church might not be everyone's cup of Joel crowd Church provides a digital Sanctuary a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations rather than just simply spectating so whether you're new to the Christian faith or in search of a new church family visit cra cr. church and if you have any questions just drop them an email to hello crow. Church they would love to connect with you and now let's meet your host and our special guest for today okay so welcome to another episode of what's the story with M admon so opposite me is the beautiful man himself Mr Peter farington uh who if you're a regular crowd will they will know you from all of the talks uh that Pete has done for crowd and so we thought let's get I'm in the studio this time yeah thanks for having me Matt it's good it's good here yeah yeah I'm looking forward to this so we're going to record what's the story uh the podcast there what if you're listening you know that already because there have been a nice little intro which we've not heard um and so yeah welcome to what story we're going to dig into Pete's story uh about his Christian faith challenges that he's faced and some of the things that God's taught you along the way which I'm looking forward to getting into so um it's G to be good yeah yeah how long have we known each other now uh I don't really know I mean it's difficult to answer cuz uh We've well I I grew up in a church that we've both been part of for a long time so but it's it's been probably only like uh four or five years maybe that bit gone to know each other a bit Yeah I think that's CU of your brother as well yeah if you're again if you're regular crowd you'll have seen uh John on here and his beautiful wife found a great she also did a watch the story before they went off to America yeah got her in the studio which was really sad I mean it's great but it was sad that they've gone but definitely um they seem to be having a nice time yeah from what I understand uh so yes uh let's dig into it so you've been a resident of Liverpool but you've not been a resident of Liverpool your whole life no no not at all um so yeah people don't usually believe me when I say that I grew up in Liverpool cuz I you don't sound like yeah I don't sound like um yeah so growing up we we did move around a little bit so I you know we lived in uh the Midlands for about seven years and then when we when we moved back to Liverpool um I didn't pick the accent I didn't pick it up again so um it got beaten out of me in the Midlands um literally literally um yeah and then uh when I was 19 20 I'm not quite sure I moved such a long time ago now yeah I don't know where it was it was a while ago yeah yeah lived abroad for a number of years so you lived in Italy right yeah yeah yeah yeah in Florence which is just it just sounds amazing just to go live in it how long did you live there six years I think it was and you studied Fine Art right yeah yeah so so I moved there to study painting to stud oil painting yeah um which is what i' I'd always wanted to do and uh yeah heard about this small little academy that teaches um just the traditional uh techniques of oil painting um you know 9 to 5 every day and uh yeah it was it was a dream come true I mean as cliche as that sounds it it was yeah no amazing no doubt h of the Renaissance it was yeah such a beautiful city do you miss it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah would you ever go back um I I don't know I think you know we love living in Liverpool and so it would it would need something major for us to actually like move back there but it's um yeah it's got a very special place in my heart yeah no doubt and you're fluent in Italian right uh flu into a push you know enough to get by you can order a pizza yeah yeah yeah yeah which is amazing I've tried over the years off and on you know when you I don't know if you do the same as what I do p but off and on as I go through life over the years I I'll think oh I'll just try and learn how to speak dot dot dot yeah yeah and you know I will try and pick up French again from school or German or Spanish or Italian and you kind of get so far and then I'm just in I'm just so confused about the whole thing yeah and it's just keeping it up it's yeah yeah so hard I'm in awe of people that do that but that's where you met albiol your wife yeah yeah so we met the very first weekend that I was in Florence she'd moved there two years before me to study Dentistry um yeah we met in a in an international english- speaking church in Florence and so you've got this Multicultural yeah family now right just which is just incredible so so how long have you been back in Liverpool then five years right yeah just over five years yeah so you came back just like sort of pre-lock down we'd been back for a couple so it was it was like the Autumn of 20 2018 right so we've been back for a couple of years before that yeah um yeah and then out and all the things that happened with you guys as well which we'll get into so you grew up uh in a Christian family uh well what people would term a Christian family isn't it your mom and dad girl front line your dad was the reason you were in the Midlands your dad was part of a radio Christian radio yeah yeah he yeah he was a radio presenter for for like the biggest Christian radio station in the UK UCB DJ Mike farington playing the Mike did he do that I hope not I can't I just can't imagine Mike ever doing uh but ni um so yeah so you you sort of you grew up in a Christian family but then I I'm guessing for you like for most people that grew up in a Christian family that there came a point where you had to make some kind of decision yourself about the Christian faith right yeah yeah yeah cuz my you know my earliest memories are like running around the the church Hall that you know after the service and like that grew up grew up in that so heard it all um every week every day for for years and years but I I I remember when I was H probably like around 13 I remember standing um standing in you know in church holding the uh the printouts of the song lyrics um I guess it was just as we were transitioning away from acetates and the you know projectors you know I remember being the acetate guy in church I remember you know I'll do worship today I'll change that sheet of plastic for the next one and you always make sure you get it the right way yeah yeah they got to get the right way you got to get it Square yeah you don't want people doing this you know I don't think I don't think my kids knew what it was like back then just what do you mean you had to change a piece of plastic to get the lyrics on the screen you to do what isn't it can't remember what I was saying oh you you're growing up running around Church yeah yeah so so I remember you know reading reading the the song There showing worship and and and just really thinking like what what does this mean yeah and uh is this just my parents' Faith um I guess I was asking myself two questions like one do I believe this yeah do like do I believe that God is real do I believe this do I believe this to be true to which I think my answer was always yes I don't think I ever you know doubted the existence of God but then the second question was like okay what's my what's my engagement in that yeah um and do you know do I want to have a personal faith or is this just you know something I yeah you know I'm I'm growing up in growing up in and at some point you know I have to make a decision yeah either way um so how old were you when you roughly sort of yeah maybe even as maybe even as early as 12 yeah but yeah yeah I've got yeah Vivid memories of standing there like you know hearing the songs singing the lyrics but thinking like what's this all about yeah uh to me yeah well so were if someone said to you when did you become a Christian how would you answer that question I don't know um no I I I think um I definitely did make it you know make a decision in my teens um to to follow God and uh and did really powerfully encounter God during my teens um but then uh there were there were many ups and downs throughout those years and then a big down um when I was 18 19 um shortly before moving abroad so um I I I can't really pinpoint like a a or or a moment really um it's been uh yeah yeah a a long journey um to which I can't really say like oh that was the that was the day when I became a Christian yeah I think there's a lot of people like that which is interesting isn't it because I mean you and I both sort of have this Evangelical background where there's you know for a lot of people there's a very definite time and date where yeah I made the decision at this point right um I mean it's easy for for me I suppose in a lot of ways cuz I didn't grow up in a Christian family and so for me there was a very definite point in time where I was like but for my kids I don't know if there is um I think it's uh it's a it's not black and white there sort of this transitioning isn't there I think it's when you grow up in a Christian family it feels like there's a lot of micro decisions do you I mean that you make um and you and you can't sort of pinpoint and go oh that is the exact point in time yeah yeah which is interesting um it nothing related to anything but I was I was interviewing a guy called um oh his name's completely blanked out my head now but he's the head of Google data right I'm mean a a big guy Neil hins that's his Neil and I was interviewing him on a different podcast and he's a head head of Google data I mean you know he knows what he's talking about what dat is concerned and in the world of digital right we try and attribute everything so if you go to a website and you buy I don't know a pen right and what the guy who owns the pen website wants to know is where did what what was the reason for that sale right okay so it's called attribution so if I can attribute that sale like if you saw my ad on Facebook came to my website and bought the pen I'm going to go that Facebook ad is working right so I'm going to I'm going throw a lot more money at that ad and get pens and you know evangelicals are like this when it comes to Salvation at what point can we attribute it but Neil H was that that made it work yeah yeah it's that one let's let throw some money down at that and Neil made this really interesting point not about salvation but about attribution he um he said that you know they were watching this one particular lady buy a pair of shoes on a website right it's not a sexist remark this is just a genuine story right they're watching this one lady buy a pair of shoes there were 236 points of contact for that one lady before buying that pair of shoes right agree so Facebook Facebook organic Facebook ads Instagram ads the website the blog the YouTube channel yeah looking at 14 different other colors I mean there and so Neo ask really interesting question at what point did she decide to buy those shoes how do we attribute that sale right yeah the answer is you can't yeah obviously and so um I think for people like yourself like my kids I don't know if there is that attribution and that's okay yeah yeah I mean it's uh it's it's okay we there's just lots of little things that happened along the way yeah yeah so what happened at 19 then 19 so I started University uh yeah I guess I was 19 i' taken a year out at some point along the way um and just not great with the timeline I'm really not I think it's Monday today I don't know um so I but basically I started University and almost immediately I I completely uh lost my appetite I had zero energy had no I I was B I basically like just spent 20 hours a day in bed um I didn't yeah I just had no I didn't think I had any reason really to to get up and um I mean but for a few years prior to that I'd been really struggling with um self harm for a couple of years um and kind of thought I'd gotten a handle on it um and and I think I I had a a huge amount of that was a very private struggle um no one no one knew about it um and I think there was a a huge amount of self I would call it self-loathing really U I was I was growing up a very very timid very very timid guy um and yeah very very low selfesteem um and and it and I had a lot of questions I guess I'm going back a little bit to like you know the the point where I became a Christian that whole that whole journey but um I had along that journey I had questions about why uh why things were as they were in my uh at home and um and why I was like I was um um and all that just came to a head at 19 um so I was just in bed 20 hours a day I think I went to UNI about three times wow um I obviously didn't last long there um I dropped out like by the so this wasn't Florence no sorry yeah this was this was in England yeah yeah in Liverpool yeah um and uh yeah I was diagnosed with depression shortly after all of that and um yeah but I was very very depressive and it was really really dark time um I uh I I I never I and I and I I did entertain suicidal thoughts for long I remember a couple of months where I just yeah really entertain W um those thoughts I I don't think I was ever like close to you know attempting anything but um but it was on my mind all the time I you know I hate I hated myself really really did um and um and I didn't you know I was still in in amongst all this I was still going to church every every Sunday um being a good Christian kid uh that was important to me to um maintain that uh you know that veneer um so where did all that hatred come from um I I think that there were there were multiple things um you know I I joked to the beginning about how the Scout accent got beaten after me in the Midlands but I you know I was bullied a lot at one um I think I I thought there um I I thought I was just a really weird kid and and uh there were a lot of things about my life that didn't that that made me different to or you know I thought made me different to those around me I was a Christian you know or growing up in a Christian family um you know which is kind of weird at times um i' I'd also been homeschooled for for a long time so I I there were lots of things that were kind of um I thought were odd yeah um and uh yeah I you know I hated that I was super skinny and um uh yeah so it was kind of like a whole bunch of a whole bunch of stuff yeah so when did if you don't mind me asking when did the self harm start that's yeah so that was that was younger I did get the time scale all um out of work but um when I was 16 or 17 yeah do you remember the first time I do yeah yeah yeah I do and it was actually after like a a youth group meeting um like back at home um so you know I was I was like still going to church doing all the midweek stuff um but I and I and I like I said I I don't think think I ever stopped believing that God is real um but it it really stopped getting down to my heart um around that time as in like you know the fact that God might love me yeah um and the fact that he uh he you know that I might not just be a nuisance to him yeah um yeah um but yeah so started around started around when I was like 16 17 and I think I it it was to me the perfect expression of what I felt inside so I think that's why really why I was drawn to that yeah yeah yeah um because I've heard obviously I've Heard lots of harrowing stories of s uh to be honest with you not many men I've not heard many men talk about it but I've heard obviously women talk about it a lot um and I sit here listening to you talk going man that's horrific 16y old kid feeling that that is the way to I express themselves at that point in time because I'm I'm sitting here with my you know my logical brain and it my brain's going this does not compute why would why would somebody want to do that um and I'm just curious what obviously I don't want to get graphic because yeah yeah you never know who's listening to the podcast in the car but at the same time I want to be real um how did you get into it I think that I was at the time I was in college and uh I was studying art and there were a lot of depressive people around me yeah I can imagine um so I was aware of it as something that some people did right um you know and art at least what I was studying at the time uh was all about looking inside yourself right and expressing whatever you find there and what I found there wasn't pretty yeah um and yeah what I what I saw when I looked inside myself was uh something I hated and so there yeah I I guess I was drawn to it well yeah I was aware of it being a thing um I knew people who uh you know who had struggled with it um not I didn't know anyone who promoted it but um um but yeah it like I said before it was kind of the the only way that I could like the only way I felt that I could truly Express what I was feeling inside and kind of find an out for that for that self-loathing for that self-loathing and um you know I said about like Suicidal Thoughts I don't think I it was ever something that I um was was close to acting acting upon but but the the very sort of exploration in my mind of those things was was just a continuation really of like uh not that I not that I wanted to die but that I I really hated myself and and I did didn't see um I didn't see a way a way out of that um Abyss really um so then it's like well it's only a matter of time before it it it comes out in some form um yeah that's hard so the the phrase I hear counselors use and I definitely am not a counselor but the phrase I hear counselors use is um are they actively suicidal okay so when you have Suicidal Thoughts is one thing but if people people start to intervene when you're actively suicidal MH um so you're dealing with this then as a teenager yeah yeah that's a lot to deal with as a teenager um fast forward now right um few years down the line do you still struggle with depression no no uh it's bit I I but I I but I would add that I know that it's something that I would have a tendency towards right so um I'm not sure what you know when was the last time I I could say I I struggled you know I was struggling with depression then but um it's been a very long time yeah yeah I was actually talking about this um with someone the other day cuz I um yeah like I I love painting and I uh a number of years ago I wanted to create a painting uh that would sort of capture some of the feeling of what I was some of the feelings that I had inside me back when I was sort of 18 19 so that so that I never so that I never forget what that felt like I want to be able to always um or empathize with people who are going through Dark Times um and I also never want to forget just just how dark that was so so that I don't forget just how good God's been to me you know yeah um so that's an aside but oh no we're going to get into all of that I'm I'm curious how you you know you went from that place to where you want you know what happened how did God help you with that um and I suppose it I I think if I if I'm listening to you talk Pete and I'm not a a Christian um listening to you share your story I'm part of me is like well I'm curious to hear how God B you out of it what did God do but another question that would be in my mind would be well why did God let that happen to you when you were a teenager I don't know if you ever wrestled with that um yeah yeah absolutely and you know and and not just that time but you know other times since uh absolutely wrestled with those questions of why why is this happening uh and actually that was you know part of part of my the the the questions that I had for God at the time yeah like why is this uh you know why do I see so much pain in some of the lives you know in uh so much pain in some of the lives of people that I love um yeah so 100% that that's definitely been um something I've wrestled with and uh but H you know hindsight is amazing um but you know and I actually haven't t I haven't talked about the whole self harm thing for quite a long time but when I look back at that time and and and other times that have been difficult since then although I um although I you know wish that I didn't have to go through those yeah those Seasons it is at the same time difficult for me to say I wish that they never happened because they are uh they are to me now so precious because of what I have since um experienced of God's love as a result um does that make sense yeah totally it's one of those things isn't it I it sounds a bit weird if you if you've never been in that situation but yeah sometimes you you know you your mom and dad used to say to parents would say to me you just don't know what you've got do I mean you don't know you're born you know all that sort of phrase and I think sometimes you don't know what it is you've got until you haven't got it mhm um and you know you you take for granted I think a lot of things breathing until someone stands on your lungs and you can't breathe in which case you're you're very much fighting for it and I think and when you've experienced these things I it totally makes sense how you would look at that and go well that has given me a revelation which I am so very grateful for yeah yeah um I think I have have the same outcome a a very different story in terms of how I got there um but the same outcome that actually you know I became a Christian when I was sort of 19 um I can't remember the timeline either to be fair P but but at the same time I'm I'm aware of life before Christ you know and I'm aware of life after Christ and I think whilst I wouldn't choose for my kids to go through what I went through of course yeah um going through them is is part of the reason why I'm where I am today I mean and so I don't if you can can you regret them and not regret them at the same time it's a really bizarre position isn't it to be in 100% so so you you you obviously have to deal with the depression um do you deal with that then before you head off to Florence uh yes yeah so um after I dropped out of uni I uh was talking with a friend who'd recently been on on um something called A discipleship training school um the DTs yeah DTS y DT and and he'd come back a very different person still the same guy but he seemed lighter yeah know and and I remember just thinking like whatever has happened in your life I need the same thing to happen to me so on a bit of a whim I decided to do this 9mon school in Germany so I went there and uh and for the first sort of three months there's lots of um like Bible teaching and worship sessions and stuff and uh basically in the first week there was this one of the first weeks there was this teaching on the father Heart Of God for like a week and um there were like a hundred people in this room every day and uh people were just in in bits the whole time like Bloods of Tears yeah it was like I remember turning to the guy next to me and and saying something like this this is just a room of like very sick people you know and I I was one of them like it was like open heart surgery for for 3 months that time and um and yeah God God just started like um revealing to me all of the um all of the things that I'd sort of buried beneath the surface that that needed dealing with and um and and I was just able to see and understand really really for the first time something of uh what it meant that God is a father to me yeah and uh and that he loved me and I you know I could start to see how he had been there um throughout those difficult years and um yeah really really precious time and I I stopped it yeah so I'd been taking anti anti-depressants for a while at that point and stopped and uh haven't haven't needed them since um so for me I know it's not this is not how it happens for everyone but for me it was just like it was night and day yeah um there have been moments since where uh I've a couple of times been close to kind of slipping into that yeah um melancholic there's something that I yeah that that I naturally would um you know with the the Christian Ling of ter in my sort of sinful nature would or the old man the old self would have a tendency towards definitely um but it it was it was a night and day um yeah it was it's a great I mean it's a great story that you know that um God came down and met you at in Germany of all places you know let's go Germany Pete that's where you need to go get yourself sort out but it's it's it's really I I love hearing stories of God's just transforming people you know like you say sometimes that's super you know night and day in an instant you know or quite a quick time frame some people it takes years but um God still transforms and you meant you use this phrase God revealed to me the father heart of God and his love for me but what does that mean what what actually happened there um like on that day well just you know you how did God reveal his love to you how did he reveal his father heart to you I guess again I'm thinking people listening to the the show might not know what that means yeah yeah yeah you know was it like a fortune cookie or I mean it's that kind of how what happened to you how did how did he reveal these things to you and how did how did that get into your heart to the point where it you know God just transforms everything um I mean I I remember someone was praying for me and they had um call a word a word of knowledge um where you know they felt god um saying something uh to me like you know that God had given them a message to give to me and um and I sort of had everything together at that point um but but as this person started speaking it was it was like he he actually repeated almost word for word things that um things that have been spoken in like uh conflict and argument at home and what you know what had been a really painful time um and uh and and and things were just memories were coming to my mind of like oh gosh yeah had almost like forgotten that that that specific event had happened but now it's now it's there soid in my in my mind and uh and oh my goodness I've never dealt with this um and yeah just just just floods and floods of memories and um and I I it's it's so it's so hard to put something like this into words because it's it's like I so I I could feel viscerally all of the pain of the past but at the same time I I felt comfort and uh yeah Comfort is just the word really that um the God was with me uh and and had been with me um and that there was a a a protection and a uh and a care um you know that a father would provide that he um you know that he he he was providing for me and um yeah I think I don't know if that answers the question but it's just it's just an interesting question isn't it and it's well it's an even more interesting answer because I think again everybody's story is different yeah how did God work in your life how did how did you encounter God how did you experience God yeah um and everybody has different St I mean shows of the greatness of God really and that it's not sort of a one siiz fits all but I I was just curious yeah so you you go to Germany um you encounter the love of God you encounter the father Heart Of God yeah um which interestingly I still think is perhaps one of the biggest Revelations that we can experience is it the father Heart Of God that what that means what that nature is um you come back like your friend changed are you lighter on your feet uh just is did you get what you wanted yeah yeah yeah 100% yeah and and more yeah um yeah I I felt like I uh I felt like I had purpose I felt like um well that I that I knew knew God that it wasn't you know that it wasn't um it wasn't just knowing about him um because I knew a lot about him I'd been told a lot about him and uh yeah but during that time it was like I I I met him and and that uh yeah that I actually learned what it what it was to um to to to live life with him and to to not be not be doing things alone um to not be alone and um yeah so it really was um yeah totally transformative fantastic yeah so then you go to Florence yeah yeah yeah so and when when I was in Germany uh I I met the director of um this art school in Florence so um yeah so I I basically uh decided straight away like okay I'm going to Florence I'm going to go to this school and um yeah and then that's how I met my wife so the whole thing was like this you know God orchestrated this umun all the little jigsaw puzzles and all the bits you sort of you're like God I just how you put this together I have no idea but you know Well Done these little stories intertwining um so you met your wife you you're there for six years yeah uh you learned some exceptional talents I've seen your paintings there extraordinary thank you Matt a really great unbelievable what you can do I just I'm in awe um you come back with your bride back to the UK how was that yeah it was strange because um I my wife was actually more more keen to move here than than I was I think um uh you know when you've like been away for a long time like six years a lot have changed you know like most of the people who I was really close to you know no longer lived in Liverpool and um you know you sort of have this idea in your mind that like yeah okay six years have passed but nothing will have nothing will have six years wer have F than Liverpool it'll still be ins samee yeah um yeah but um so it it definitely took took some time to to get used to to being here again um by the time we've gotten used to that it was like straight into lockdown thanks lock um um yeah no but it's well that's when you that's when you you came AC I mean I know you've had various things throughout your life but it's fair to say that's when you came across probably the most significant challenge in life wasn't it yeah yeah yeah that's definitely one the one that um that comes to mind so my um our little boy Leo who is uh he's just recently turned three he was born um February 2021 um get the timeline right [Laughter] um yeah I'll be able to listen so this was like deep into the longest lockdown yeah yeah um CU it was at like yeah that second year wasn't it um and uh gosh yeah so I remember going to um you know we going to the hospital and you know restrictions were really really tight at that point so um you know it was a difficult it was a difficult and I was um I was allowed to stay just for a little bit after the birth um but everything appeared to be fine and um I I went home after after a few hours few hours after the birth uh you know absolutely lated it's like it is the most awesome awesome uh thing to have witnessed this a strange word I guess but yeah just truly truly awesome moment um so I went home absolutely elated and you know thinking everything's fine alola is still um sorry I haven't said that's my wife's name alola um she um yeah they they kept her in overnight with with Lao and I went in the following day for like the short visiting slot that was allowed at the time um they wanted to keep her in a bit longer so I went home a few hours later so just like late afternoon and and then we here they want to keep her in overnight um they were just a little bit something a little bit funny about his breathing um so so alabo and L yeah they were going to stay in for a second night and then got into the evening and got a phone call from aliola I was actually with with um John and Anna Grace at the time and uh Alaba was panicking and uh you know my heart just plum did and um she didn't have a clue what was going on they they'd taken Leo she didn't know what was happening and it transpired that he had um strey menitis wow um and uh I I don't know how long he he was he was away from alola but um I was uh yeah I I then went you know straight over to the hospital and um they had to re they had to resuscitate Leo and um I mean blesser alabo had like was basically by herself you know for a lot of this time watching his health deteriorate and um and yeah he was I was just absolutely terrifying truly terrifying sight like seeing our little boy in in the incubator and you know so so pale and uh just horrible horrible horrible I'll never forget that and um uh yeah they they were very very concerned yeah you know yeah Consultants were like just they couldn't say if he was going to make it and um so for for like two or three days it was it was touch and go as to whether he was going to pull through um yeah like it's it had been a dream of mine to be a dad like I just always always dreamed of that um and so then to to actually then be a dad uh and and for the whole thing to be on a knife edge yeah you know for this uh you know this human being who you've had you know uh had a part in bringing into the world to then you know very possibly lose him it's just um yeah can't put it into words um but yeah for 48 hours it was like man you know we we could lose him and so that but those 48 Hours felt like an eternity you know and obviously I've I've already um should have given a spoiler alert but he you know he he's just turned three so he he did still around yeah yeah um but uh those those two well so he was in the nicku for like two two and a half weeks um and uh obviously neither of us particularly Al Alaba hadn't slept a very long time um but those in those yeah those two or three days in particular immediately after after birth were were Haring and um uh yeah and a you know real test um of of faith um yeah but I mean we can go into it more but I would I would say as well like I mean I alluded to it before this is one of the other times I would say we're we're really dark I I I wish that didn't have to have happened to um to my son to alola to me um but but I look back on it now as like some of this uh some of the sweetest moments of my life because of how I experienced the love of God throughout it um yeah yeah so it's again that tension isn't it yeah yeah yeah that crazy crazy tension so so so you're in this uh I remember during the first lockdown my brother was in hospital cuz he had a stroke oh wow and I couldn't get in to see him he's a couple years younger than me and I I couldn't get in to see him because they wouldn't let anybody in I couldn't even get in on the you know the Reverend cord uh I don't know if you know about the the Reverend cord but you get into a hospital you're Church Minister you know I don't care I don't care God's not coming in you know okay um and I remember I remember thinking man it this was my brother you know M um love my brother I think is is a legend you know really but at the same time it's going to be a lot worse if that's my wife and son yeah do you know what I mean and so I I I I can't I'm trying to think what what that would have felt like for you but I can't empathize I can think about my brother not being a to get and see him you know and but at the same time I'm like my wife and son I I didn't have that you know I I can talk about what Sharon went through with Josh but it was nothing compared to this and so I'm kind of like what was that like horrible yeah and I had to fight to fight to be able to get in um you know in the first place when I heard that news um yeah so initially it was like uh a lot of coming and going for the first I don't know like four or five days I think I would I would have to leave at night um you know I was like so sleep deprived so just and then yeah and then my wife and my son who I've spent you know a handful of hours with uh both there I don't know if he's I don't know if he's going to make it yeah um yeah it was brutal brutal and um yeah and just felt utterly helpless in a way that I've I've just never never had that feeling before like there is literally nothing that I can do um you know I I can't even I can't even just be there uh all the time um yeah horrible yeah no no doubt no doubt and for Alby as well I would have thought just wrestling with this in the hospital geez so what was Faith like at this point so cuz the lock like 2020 was obviously a weird year U suppos likely for everyone it was it was mental but you know like like for a lot of people our lives had really shrunk so um a lot of stuff had been Stripped Away um you know thinking about faith and church like you didn't have the buzz of community of like being around people all the time so that that was gone you didn't have communal times of of worship I was gone um and so it really like caused both of us uh to to really think hard about what what our faith is actually built on and you know if you yeah if you take away if you take away the The Good Vibes on a Sunday morning and um the you know the nice music and everything what's what's left yeah and and I I remember reading a book what was it called cross- centered life I think um which just unpacks the gospel um yeah uh it's not not a big book but um just absolutely ruined me for for the gospel again and in a way so like when you ask the question when did you become a Christian I part of me is tempted to say 20120 right because um up until that point point the cross the death and resurrection of Christ had been something that you know we sort of pay homage to every Easter yeah you might watch the male Gibson film Passion of Christ and have a sort of you know somber Good Friday service um so like wink at it once a year but um but really like in terms of how I live my life would I would sort of see it kind of like as a as a course you graduate from like oh yeah you know I took I took that class in the '90s yeah of the Gospel um uh but I was uh just absolutely absolutely wrecked by it by by just uh I just you know read a lot and um really thought over and considered like like the um a big a really important passage was Romans 5 like God demonstrates his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us um just just those words alone to think it it wasn't when I was lovable it wasn't when I was God's child yeah um that's why the fact that he ad adopted me mean something it it was that the the innocent died for the guilty and it it wasn't just that um it wasn't just that someone died for another in the place of another took the punishment of another it was that the the victim mhm God God's the victim yeah that he died for the perpetrator and um um and and I think really just think like I was uh I guess God just revealed to me again the depths of my my my sin and in doing so revealed to me how much higher the heights are of his of his grace and his Mercy yeah um so then going forward to being in the hospital um it was like it was like I know Alaba would say the same has said the same as well that it was like we we had a a deep well to draw from um you know I my my prayers in the hospital were like really only went as far as the word father I it was just father like I have I had no other words I was so sleep sleep deprived vocabulary is probably like a doen words anyway but but it um um uh I was so utterly helpless and um so afraid that that we might lose Leo but um but I knew uh in in those 48 Hours when everything was on the line when his life was on the line yeah I knew in the like the deepest part of my soul that I didn't need God to save Lao in order to know that he loves me right like like my being convinced of his love for me was not contingent on the outcome of of this situation because God demonstrates this present tense God demonstrates his love for me in that while I was still The Sinner Christ died for me yeah and um um you know like when when uh when Jesus is prophesied about in Isaiah and he's called Emmanuel God With Us the the the wi being in between God and US shouldn't shouldn't be possible that that God would be with us uh you know if everything was fair and we just got what we deserved that wouldn't be it and God God is the gospel for him to have given himself to us is uh there's you know he's not a means to the end he is he is the end and to just to have him so to to to be there in the midst of all that um to to know that God was with me yeah was everything and and so that's that's why I say it was the um that's why I say it was like some of the sweetest moments of my life because because everything was on the line and I didn't know at the time what was going to happen yeah um but I knew that I had everything because I had god um and uh you know thankfully that you know the story ended happily um but um yeah but it it really was like coming to a deeper understanding of the Gospel that that I think like I I'm genuinely I would genuinely terrified to imagine what that would have been like without yeah without that well to draw from yeah um you know and yeah like a live without God really truly I think a terrifying terrifying thought like to uh yeah and and yeah to just to know that God is with us uh changes everything absolutely everything yeah it's it's powerful isn't and I mean thank you for sharing CU these things aren't always either to talk about I don't think um they're not always nice things to remember um but like you say at the same time you you sort of you find God in them don't you you see God and you you experience God in ways that actually in ways that are rarely taught in Evangelical churches you know what I mean it's that kind of and in some respects fair you know why why would you talk about it in I suppose from a church service but you know I suppose I could argue it either way but um it's a remarkable story Pete and as someone who watched from afar like all you could do during lockdown was you you know you got text updates and you're like okay we'll keep praying then I guess I don't know what else to do um and you know like prayer is not enough sometimes we just like I'm really sorry all I can do is pray you're like you what that's that's great that I'll take that I mean like we undermine prayer sometimes don't we by apologizing that's all I can do um but I think you know someone who's watched you guys from afar and just you know even today we on the in the drive on the way down to the studio you were talking about how Leo is now able to drink a glass of milk it's God you know these things that people have been praying for and um one of the one of the things that um I I don't say it to many people PE but there are some people that truly inspire me right like you guys you you and albola with with L just unbelievable and it the people that inspire me are the people that have gone through something so horrific but come out just the sweetest just loveliest people not bitter not angry just love God have a revelation of the Gospel in that um and just come out of it with a desire to share Christ with the world I mean it's the most extraordinary thing um there's some friends in London like that you know um some friends in the states and and and actually it I find it utterly inspiring the people that I've met a lot of wealthy people over the years you know they're great to hang around don't get me wrong I you know I've mentioned before on The In Crowd church that I've I've flown on their private jets you know I've I've had their chefs cook me meals and all kinds of crazy things and um I would be I would be irresponsible to say that I didn't enjoy that um but do I find those people inspiring no not really I just find they're nice people to hang around with and they're wealthy people got a lot of money some parts of their life are inspiring um but it's the people that have been on the cold face um and been refined by fire for one of better expression not that I would form a theology on that by the way just in case you're listening um but it's just a phrase uh but no I think you guys are usly inspiring and I just love this the the way it it God was there um and God met you guys you know and I think oh good on you man and and a big shout out to you know to Alia that kept you on the straight yeah yeah yeah well I mean like as hard as it was for me yeah doubly hard I think to have yeah yeah in in in very different ways um you know to have I mean because uh yeah okay I I felt helpless um but she was you know there all by herself watching all Happ yeah I remember reading a quote by Smith Wigglesworth once which said everything I am in my life under God I owe to my sweet wife Polly and I remember reading that going yeah I've been married 26 years and I totally get that statement you what I mean cuz my and I'm sure you'd say the same thing my wife is utterly remarkable uh and I think I think actually you journey through this knowing that God is enough but there is something about journeying through this together with a wife who has a strong faith as well yeah because you you can support each other then can't you um and so yeah amazing amazing if you could um if you could go back in time time have a conversation with your 16-year-old self yeah what would you say that is a good question um I think uh well I was believing a lot of rubbish I well I think I would preach to myself I think that's something that's um that we we need you know think that's something that's um we need to learn Lear to do to ourselves um I think I would I think I would tell myself that well I don't know if it would have done anything but I I think I would have told myself that God is with you um and E even though you may not see any evidence of it uh that that doesn't mean it isn't true um and things will look very different from a different perspective MH um yeah also talk to someone yeah without a doubt um yeah which I did do but after far too long MH so yeah I'm just aware that there's um people listening I'm I'm always in I love it when people come on tightly vulnerable share their story you know and then I'm think thinking of The Listener again there's going to be knowing god the way I know God there will be someone listening to you talk who is feeling what you felt who is maybe doing what you did yeah um either when you're a teenager or they're feeling what you felt because their wife is in hospital and their child is sick um and they'll be listening to your story and there'll be prayers and there'll be heart felt you know there's going to be emotion and all kinds of things and I think it's probably fair to say if if that is you if you are listening and you are engaged with cellon then do seek out counsel um do talk to people do go and if you don't know who to talk to reach out to us here at crowd church when I'm not a trained counselor but we will definitely we'll definitely tell you where to go go see your GP um as a is a good starting point isn't it but do seek help yeah but at this also remember God is with you would you say that's true even if someone's listening to the the show and they don't have a Faith just happened to a stumbled across your um God so God is you say omnipresent he's everywhere um and uh and you can cry out him at any moment you know um he's yeah uh and because of because of Jesus we have total access to it um so he's he's made that he's made that way possible so yeah yeah you don't need a certain score on your perfect meter do you your perfect om I had zero you don't need any kind of reputation uh or any kind of you know uh CV uh or resume as they'd say in America but um you just go to God pour out your heart yeah and just keep doing it and at some point something will break yeah yeah I I just love I love the story of uh one of my favorite stories in the Bible is a woman with the issue of blood and Gus's daughter so it's it's found in Mark chapter 5 and the woman has this bleeding issue uh for 12 years 12 years I mean and the the way the Bible talks about it is she spent all that she had but not got any better she' got worse I mean life was just going from bad to worse for this lady and this was a serious condition back then um but after 12 years of prayers 12 years of longing you know 12 years of trying what she could do to make things better in an instant everything changed for yeah um the word the Bible uses suddenly you're just like I just love why the Bible uses the word suddenly and then jus' daughter's sick she's not sick for 12 years but we don't know how long she was sick for but she was sick she dies and then suddenly everything changes to him um and that's just that's Jesus isn't it sometimes it might take 12 years sometimes it might just take a few days like I just but Jesus is he's all about the transformation he's all about the suddenly and I think the hope that's in that is extraordinary I mean that that um yeah no matter what you're in he can turn it around yeah so I think the the other thing that uh just popped into my head was um I can't remember what the name is in Hebrew but one of the names uh for God in the Bible is the the God who sees and I just think that is beautiful that uh that God is oh is it El Roy is that it yeah Roi I think it is Anna Kettle who's another regular on has just had it tattooed on yeah the God who sees yeah um I mean what a story she's got if you've not heard Anna's what's the story um definitely check that out you know with the miscarriages that those guys have had heartbreaking stuff but yeah she's got that tattooed on The God Who SE Elroy e l r o i I think it is not El what Elroy yeah you know he's not he's not aloof he's he sees you wherever you are and um and that he's he's watching and he's he's ready yeah he's he's waiting um and he's he's he's willing to um to transform you know yeah absolutely Pete listen man I'm aware of time but yeah it's great conversation so thank you so much for for coming in loved it loved hearing your story Lov catching up uh I'm enjoy the the the car trip on the way home yeah yeah just more of this um but no I really appreciate it and um if you want to connect with Pete you can reach out to him through the crowd church we'll obviously pass on all messages to him but I'm not going to put his email out in the public domain because I just work um but thank you so much for coming on man absolute Legend thanks for having me when are you next to crowd um is four or five weeks I'm I'm recording it in like three weeks so okay five yeah okay very what's the topic uh probably shouldn't say say because it's going to date this right no it's fine what's the topic uh it is um fruit of the spirit kindness I think I don't think is cuz I'm just prepping that to not that maybe you're doing kindness we're both prepping all right well we're going to go and consult the teaching rou right now ladies and gentlemen uh whether way I mean you you'd be much better at it than me but no Legend thanks Pete you're you're a star thank you and just like that we've reached the end of another fascinating conversation crowd church is a digital Church a community a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow to find out more check out www.c crowd. church and don't forget to subscribe to what's the story on your favorite podcast app we've got a whole lot of inspiring stories coming your way and we really don't want you to miss any of them what's the story is the production of crowd Church our fantastic team is made up of Anna Kettle Matt Edmonson Tanya hudac and myself sa fayan we work behind the scenes to bring these stories to life our theme song is the creative work of Jos Edmonson if you're interested in the transcript or show notes head over to our website whatastory podcast.com and sign up for our weekly newsletters to get all this goodness delivered straight to your inbox so that's all from us this week thank you so much for joining us and we'll catch you in the next episode bye for now