What Does The Bible Say About Forgiveness?

What does the Bible say about Forgiveness_ Sharon: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Uh, I'm Sharon. And this is Rach. Hi. And we are part of Crowd Church and we are live streaming today from Liverpool. Mm-hmm. So welcome to everybody, and this week we have a women's team. Hey, we have, uh, myself and R and we have a woman who's speaking to us. Last week we had a men's team, so. Makes a great change. Yeah. We're all for equal ops, aren't we? Yep. Yep. And basically we're a, a church, we're on an online church. For those who maybe are not sure about faith, maybe you are searching, you're trying to find out what's the truth. And we are here for you, but we are here for wherever you are on your faith journey. Mm-hmm. So you're very welcome. And we like to encourage people to comment. Um, yeah. Put your questions, your comments, what you've been up to. Video: Yeah. Sharon: Uh, all very welcome. Yeah. So Rach, how are you this week? Rachel: Yeah, good, thanks Chas. But, um, really busy day yesterday in my [00:01:00] work I work, um, in a charity connected to our church in Frontline called Imagine If We Had a Family Fun Day yesterday. And it was fantastic. It was such, it was a really good time. So, yeah. Sounds hard work as well. Yeah, hard work. A bit fun. Um, we had nearly 500 people in the afternoon. Loads of hot dogs. Loads of fun. Um. A, a chat about the meaning of Easter and Easter Bunny. So, and chocolate, what more could you want? Fabulous. Yes. It's really great. Yeah. Anyway, would you Sharon: like to tell us Rachel: what's happening today? I would love to, so I thought so. Yeah. So, um, the wonderful Jenny Taylor, she's gonna be talking. To talking to us today. Um, and the talk's called what the Bible says about forgiveness and um, I'm really looking forward to this 'cause she's a great teacher. Um, she's got great things to share and also it's, um, a topic, um, connected to Christianity that's just really powerful and [00:02:00] really practical. So I'm looking forward to hearing what she's got to say about that. And then, um, we're gonna have, um, a time of Prayer. For, um, a really big issue in the world at the moment, which is I'm praying for the, um, Ukraine and Russia and all that's going on there, so I'm really glad we can do that and pause and have a time of Prayer and. Um, you know, to bring those things to God and to think about 'em as well. It's great. And then we're gonna have a worship song, um, conver Conversation Street. So time for an nata, and please do, um, share your comments. Um, and we'll try and answer any questions, won't we, or chat about our own personal experience. We'll do our best with the comments. Yeah, we do have a different Sharon: setup this week. Rachel: Yeah. So, um, yeah, Sharon: we'll see where that goes. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. But, um, I'm gonna be checking in online, so if I look down, I'm not being rude or anything, but I'm just checking what your, what your comments are on Facebook. You know, we'll have another song at the end. Um, and for [00:03:00] our, um, online friends that are checking in, um, with us during the week, you know, you might, obviously you're not gonna share your live comments with us, but please do get in touch via, um, WhatsApp or emailing as well. And, um, you know, if you've got Prayer requests as well during the week, as always, please share them with us and, yeah. Yeah. It's good. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So, um, without further ado, let's go into the talk that Jenny's prepared. Um, you know, relax and enjoy and listen in to what she's got to say. And please do share your thoughts or questions online. And, um, yeah, we'll see. See you shortly after the talk.[00:04:00] Jennie: What does the Bible say about forgiveness? Hi, I am Jenny and I'm gonna try and give you. Quick overview of what it is that the Bible has to say about forgiveness, and we're gonna be looking in the [00:05:00] first four books of the New Testament, Matthew, mark, Luke, and John, because in those books. We read about Jesus' life here on Earth. So we read about Jesus, spending time with his friends, um, him meeting with people in need, meeting those needs, miracles and healings, and him getting into quite a few arguments with the religious leaders. Of the time, but we also read about Jesus's teachings on how we should live, and the life he teaches about is a life about forgiveness and love. So what does Jesus teach about forgiveness? Well, in the book of Matthew, there is a great. Story about forgiveness that I think we could look at together. It starts in verse 21, and this is what Peter, Jesus' disciple says to him. Then Peter came to him and asked, Lord, how often should I forgive [00:06:00] someone who sins against me? Seven times. No, not seven times. Jesus replied, but 70 times seven. That's a lot of times I think if you've ever been deeply or repeatedly hurt by somebody, and you could understand Peter's question because I think for most of us, we don't want to keep forgiving people over and over again. I'm sure Peter was hoping that Jesus' response would be different, but Jesus's teachings are in fact to keep on forgiving over and over. There is no limit. To the amount of forgiveness were to show to each other. Um, and I think when you hear something like that, it sounds like something that you just couldn't possibly do because when we've been hurt, we understandably we want the other person to pay for what they've done, and we might [00:07:00] think about that as maybe justice or retribution of some kind. But either way, we either want. The person who's hurt us to also be harmed in some way, or we want them to make amends. We want them to do something to repair the JA damage to pay for what they've done. And once they've done that, then we might think about whether or not we're going to forgive them. Jesus turns that round completely. He puts the responsibility on us to offer forgiveness to those who've hurt us. Whether or not they're sorry and whether or not they've done anything to repair that damage. And after Jesus has said this to Peter, he goes on to tell a story about a servant and a king. And in this story, a, the servant owes the king a huge. Huge debt, a huge sum of [00:08:00] money that he's borrowed, that he cannot repay. And in fact, the debt is so high that even if the servant were to sell himself and his entire family into slavery, he would not be able to repay the debt in his lifetime. The king hearing this man's plight has mercy on him and completely forgives the death. He wipes it out so that it is no more. Later that same day, the man comes across another servant that he works with who owes him a small amount of money, and that servant can't pay either. And he throws him into jail. And when the king finds out, he is furious. He punishes the servant. He throws him back. He throws him into jail until he can pay the whole debt. Now, I dunno about you. I think I can easily see myself in that story [00:09:00] because I think oftentimes just like that servant, we want to be forgiven for the things we know we've done that are wrong, but we're not so keen on offering that same forgiveness to other people when they hurt us. Because sometimes when people hurt us, the forgive, it can seem too big to forgive the pain we feel. Feel is too big and what they've done seems way too serious for forgiveness, and yet Jesus asks us to forgive and he is not asking us to do something which is like completely unachievable that you could never do. Instead, he's inviting us to partner with him in his work of reconciliation, reconciling relationships back to one another and reconciling people. Back to God the Father. It's an opportunity for people to taste and experience the forgiveness that we receive at the [00:10:00] cross of Jesus Christ when we believe that he died for us. And the reality is it can be really hard to forgive sometimes. In order to forgive, we've gotta be willing to let go of the debt that someone owes to us. We have to trust that Jesus' death on that cross is enough to pay for what's owed. We have to forgive because we've been forgiven. In Acts chapter 10 and verse 43, it says this, all the prophets test testify about him. It means Jesus that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. Because when we believe in Jesus, we receive this absolutely amazing gift of forgiveness of sins, and we can think about sin as all those times when we choose to do things our own [00:11:00] way instead of choosing to follow the teachings of Jesus. It's the times when we choose to put ourselves first to do what's easy and convenient instead of doing what we know. Is right when we choose to live for ourselves instead of choosing to live for God. But when we believe in Jesus, we are forgiven. We are freed from guilt, we're freed from shame, and we no longer have to repay that debt and all of that we receive by God's amazing grace. It isn't because we deserve forgiveness. It isn't because we've worked really hard to be good. It's not because we've paid the debt. It's always because he loves us, and pride is what stops us from forgiving others. And the Bible has something to say about that too. So in [00:12:00] Matthew, um, chapter six, verses 14 and 15, it says this, for if you forgive other people when they s sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your father will not forgive your sins. The Bible takes forgiveness very, very seriously. You see, when we don't forgive someone, it is because we wanna hold onto the hurt. We wanna remind ourselves of how bad they are and how good we are in comparison. We want them to pay for the debt that they owe us, and it's a debt that Jesus has already paid on the cross. The Bible teaches us that if we're like the servant in that story, we can't expect God to forgive us either. That's a pretty, um, serious. [00:13:00] Way of looking at the world, isn't it? That we are forgiven when we forgive, but when we don't forgive, when we choose not to, that God can't forgive us either, and we do need to remember that. Of course. Sometimes we do choose to forgive someone, but it can take time when we are really hurt. It can be a journey, and that is okay. And Jesus understands that what he asks us to do is to keep choosing, to forgive, to keep choosing, to love knowing not only that he has paid the price, but that his love is enough to heal the hurts that we feel. Have you ever heard that saying, um, unforgiveness is like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die? Unforgiveness only hurts you in the end. It steals your joy. It steals your passion. It leaves you bitter and cynical and unable [00:14:00] to trust. None of us want to live that way. Weighed down by unforgiveness. But when we do choose to forgive, it leads to freedom and it leads to life. And as I said, for lots of us, forgiveness is gonna be a journey. It's a journey where we recognize the hurt and we realize that you know it, it actually can't be repaired or restored by the person that injured us that. We have to choose instead to trust in Jesus. Trust that he has paid the price with his life. We release the people who hurt us from the debt that they owe because Jesus has paid the debt and the sacrifice on the cross is enough. When we forgive other people, we receive life and freedom, and we forgive because we are merciful, not because the other person deserves it because [00:15:00] just like us. They don't and they can't fix it. They can't repay us. They can't restore it, but God can. He does and he will. We forgive because we've been forgiven so, so much. One of the ways that we can practice experiencing forgiveness is through repentance. When we go to Jesus and tell him that we're sorry for what we've done, you see, but repentance is so much more than just saying, sorry. That word actually means to change the way you think. Repentance is when we. Pay attention to what's happening around us and why we feel the way we do. We explore it together with good friends that we can rely on, that we trust and we can be vulnerable with. And we take what we've learned [00:16:00] and we choose to believe the truth that's in the Bible instead of the lies we have been believing before. That's what true repentance looks like. And when we repent. God always forgives us. He always forgives us. His forgiveness is utterly never ending. And when we experience that type of forgiveness, forgiveness that we don't deserve, forgiveness that we couldn't possibly earn, when we experience that for ourselves, we can then give that same forgiveness to others because we get to live in life and freedom. And for most of us, I think there are some things that are, you know, pretty easy to forgive quickly. If somebody's rushing past you and trends on your toe, you're gonna forgive them quickly and you'll probably have completely forgotten about it in a couple of hours. But there are other things that hurt much, much [00:17:00] deeper than that. And sometimes when we. When we experience something hurtful, the impact of it remains with us for a long time. What does the Bible have to say about forgiving but not forgetting? The Bible does tell us we have to forgive, but it does say that we have to forget. And that is because sometimes the pain of an incident or the impact of it could be really far reaching, and there are times when we can learn from those experiences. It might be that the reason we don't forget is because that helps us to make better decisions about maybe our relationships or the way we approach things in the future. There are times when remembering will keep us from further harm. Um, and even when we want to reconcile a relationship where we've been hurt, we can forgive, but we might not forget. We might [00:18:00] instead be able to say to that person, I forgive you, what I'm choosing to put in place better, healthier boundaries in our relationship because I want it to flourish and I want it to thrive. Many of you will know about Anthony Walker and his family. Anthony was killed in a racially motivated attack in Heon in July, 2005, and his mother g Walker chose to forgive the perpetrators of that crime before they were ever arrested. Before they were ever convicted and before they ever served a single day in prison. And the legacy of her choice has been so far reaching G and her family set up the Anthony Walker Foundation in 2006 to promote anti-racism, um, and to educate and un and empower young people and support victims of racism and hate crimes.[00:19:00] In the last five, five years, the foundation has worked with nearly 40,000 young people through education and outreach programs, and it's supported nearly 10,000 people who've been victims of hate crimes in November, um, of. 2021, the Anthony Walker Foundation partnered with the Crown Prosecution Service and John Mos University to set up a new, um, uh, a new way of supporting law students from minority backgrounds that want to go into the law, into working in the law, particularly, that want to work with victims of crime. The Walker family have not forgotten what happened to Anthony. But they did choose to forgive in a time when I think most of us really, really would've found that hard to do. They chose to forgive, and in doing so, they have built [00:20:00] something beautiful outta something that was horrifically tra tragic. And they've been an inspiration to many of us that even when it's tough, we can still forgive, but it doesn't mean that we have to forget. What the Bible does say that is really good news about this is that God the Father, does forget about the things that we've done wrong In Hebrews 10, verse 17, it says this, their sins and their lawful acts. I will remember no more. When God forgives us, he chooses not to remember the things that we've done. He doesn't hold our mistakes over our heads. He doesn't treat us poorly because of the way that we have acted. He doesn't condemn us. He doesn't make us feel ashamed. He doesn't make us feel guilty. He treats us as if those mistakes, those choices never happened. He [00:21:00] invites us to be into, to join his family as his children because he loves us. And we can be certain of God's love for us. Romans chapter five, verse five says, but God demonstrates his own love for us in this, whilst we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Before we ever apologized for the things we've done before we were even aware of them. Christ died for us. God loved us enough to forgive us before we even needed his forgiveness and before we were ever sorry. And he asks each of us to choose to forgive too. Sharon: Thanks for that, Jenny. Uh, this is Jenny's first time talking at Crowd. Uh, but I have heard her [00:22:00] talk on other occasions at the church where we all belong and we actually go to in person rather online. And she's always gives a fantastic talk, great in content, but also in structure. I do like both, I have to say, um, and always gives me lots to think about. And, uh, I see that, uh, quite a few people I've been commenting in the comment. So welcome to Tracy and to Matt Crew. Uh, Elizabeth Nicola, uh, and love my lovely husband, Matt Edmundson, who is currently in California with our daughter and also we have John Farrington in the comments. Welcome. John has actually sat opposite me doing all the technical stuff that I'm not very good at, so thanks for that. Uh, we will get to your comments soon. Um. But before that, we're going to pray for the Ukraine, as Rach said earlier. And then from that we're gonna go straight into a song, which is called Reckless Love. And there's a line in the song which talks about how, um, he talking about God leaves the 99 to go after the one. And that's actually [00:23:00] referring to, um, a parable that Jesus told in the Bible about a man who had a hundred sheep and one went missing. So he left the 99. That were, yeah. Still there to go after this one that was missing. And it's talking about how God's love for us is so great that he will go after that one. How that one is important. Mm-hmm. So, um, during the song, please just en enjoy the words. Um, think about what they're saying or feel free to sing along if you like. Mm-hmm. And also remember to write in the comments and we will do our best to find them all and to comment during Conversation Street afterwards. Video: Father God, king of all nations, we cry out to you. Now, for the people of Ukraine, we ask you to rescue those who are vulnerable from the [00:24:00] hands of their enemies. That they may live life without fear before you all of their days. Lord have mercy. Lord of lords and Prince of peace. Our politicians are predicting the biggest waring Europe. Since 1945, and we simply cry out to you urgently to write another story in our time For the dark machinations of evil men give wisdom beyond human wisdom to peacemakers seeking in an equitable and less violent way. May politicians exercise the wisdom from above, which is peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, and full of mercy. Lord have mercy. Holy Spirit, we pray for the church in Ukraine, a nation in which 70% of the population call themselves Christian. Give our many brothers and sisters in that nation [00:25:00] courage in this crisis that they may proclaim the good news of your kingdom. Bind up broken hearts and bring comfort. To all who mourn. Lord have mercy. You Lord, make war cease to the end of the earth. You break bows, shatter spears, and burn shields with fire. And so we ask you now to save the lives of many people in Ukraine. Make a peace that is strong and not weak. Deescalate this crisis. We hear of wars and rumors of wars, but you Lord are our rock, our fortress, and dad. Live, our hope is in you. And so we address the nations now in the name of Jesus, we say, be still and know God. He is exalted among the nations. He shall be exalted in the earth. Lord have mercy.[00:26:00] Before I spoke Word, you were singing over me. You have been so, so good to me. Before I took a breath, you breathed your life [00:27:00] in me. You have been so, so kind to me. Of God. Oh, it chases me down. Fight still I'm found leaves the 99. I couldn't earn it. I don't deserve it. Still you give yourself.[00:28:00] When I was your folk steal your love fought for me. You have been so, so good to. When I felt no worth, you paid it all for me. You have been so, so kind to me. Overwhelming reckless [00:29:00] love of, I couldn't, I don't. There's no shadow. You won't light up mountain. You won't climb up [00:30:00] coming after me. There's no wall you won't kick down. Lie you won't tear down coming after me. There's no shadow. You won't light up mounts and you won't climber coming after me. There's no wall you won't kick down. Lie you won't coming after me. The snow shadow. You won't light up. Mountain. You won't climb up. Coming me the snow. You won't kick down. Lie you won't tear coming after me. No shadow.[00:31:00] The, you won't kick down. Why you won't tear coming after me? God. Oh, it chases me down. I don't deserve it. Still, you give yourself love God.[00:32:00] Rachel: Hi. Welcome back everyone. That was fantastic to pray for the Ukraine. Um, I really, really appreciated that we both did, didn't we? Yeah. Um, and, um, there's so much we could pray about, but thank you so much that we did pray about Ukraine today. And, um, thank you for the worship too, that which John and Anna Grace led beautifully. So now we come to Conversation Street, the bit where we get to chat. Yeah. Love a good chat. So, um, you know, we, we were just chatting a little bit then talking about forgiveness. It's a biggie, isn't it? Yeah. It's one of those topics in the [00:33:00] Bible, which is a big deal, and it's not nice and fluffy. Or gooey or, um, soft in any way. It's a powerful, powerful thing. And, um, thank you for your comments and thank you for, um, people that have shared about, um, their experiences of forgiveness and, um, also the hard parts of forgiveness as well. That it, it is hard to forgive people when you feel. That nothing changes and they don't change. And um, you know, like, um, Matt did share, you know, it's difficult. Why should we, why should I forgive? And, you know, these are, these are good questions and um, jelly did, um, address this in her talk, but often it's as we chat that we unpack those things and sometimes then God can sort of get to the heart of the matter. And I think this is a head and a heart thing and we want. Those parts of us to connect. Yeah. Video: Yeah. Rachel: And [00:34:00] sometimes the knowledge that we know is right to then impact our hearts. And I know with my own experience of forgiveness that sometimes I've not wanted to. But as I have also almost like reached out and forgiveness through Prayer that God has done something to my heart. So, yeah. Yeah. Sharon: I've, I heard someone say once that forgiveness sounds like a great idea until you have something to forgive. Yeah. And I think that's quite true. Yeah. It does sound lovely. Yes. But then, yeah, it's quite, it can be quite difficult to do. Yes. And I definitely relate to what you said about the head and the heart connection. Yeah. Because I grew up in the church. I heard about forgiveness. I must have been like every week of my life. Yeah. And I thought I understood about it. Yeah. But it wasn't until years later, until I moved up to Liverpool that um, I'm not sure why I didn't understand it before, but I feel like God started to actually show me what it means. Yeah. And I think before I'd kind of aspired to forgive, but it was, it was just from my head and not from my heart. And I think God. [00:35:00] Showed me how actually you really need to connect those and to Yeah. Um, you know, connect with the pain of what's happened so that you can actually see, um, yeah, not brush it under the carpet, but acknowledge what has gone on. Yeah. And, and that was a, definitely a real turning point for me. Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. And so as we are talking, if there's anything particular for you that it's literally churning around in you. I think we'd encourage you, you know, acknowledge that as we're talking, you can tell God about it. Um, you can write it down, you can, um, share it with a friend. And that's part of the process, isn't it, I guess to start to forgive, to acknowledge what you've actually been through. Sharon: That's, uh, written in the comments about, it's interesting how the Bible draws a parallel between forgiveness and debt. Yeah. And again, this has been such a powerful concept for me. Mm-hmm. Because, um, the whole concept of debt is like if somebody owes you money and you've got like a list of who owes you and [00:36:00] how much they owe you. Mm-hmm. And what for, um, you can then, if you can choose to let them off that debt if you want to, or you can choose to make them pay. Yeah. But if you let them off the debt, you literally. You acknowledge what they owe you, and then you, you scrub it out from your records. Yeah. And you basically say, I release you from that. You don't owe me anymore. Mm-hmm. And for me, being able to literally write down, okay, this person owes me. This might not be money, it might be. That I feel owed, um, yeah, I dunno. Respect or an opportunity or whatever. And to say, okay, they owe me this respect or they owe me opportunity, this opportunity, but actually they can never pay it so I'm gonna let them off that. Mm-hmm. And literally on the paper, scrub it out. Yeah. Once you've connected with how it makes you feel. Mm-hmm. And then it's like this very concrete, actually, I've let 'em off that debt. They don't own me anymore. Video: Mm-hmm. Sharon: And that has been so key for me. And actually finding freedom. Not easy. No. Still not easy. [00:37:00] Rachel: No. Yeah. Yeah. So what, are there any other things that stood out to you, Karen, that you Well, sorry, just on Sharon: that. Yeah, go. Nicola also mentioned that, um, that sense of freedom that you get when you do actually forgive Yeah. Can be so hard leading up to that. Yes. But when you do actually let go of that debt that someone owes you. Yeah. It's just like amazing. Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I, I can resonate with that personally. I remember, um, a few years ago now sat at my kitchen table with a friend praying about, um, something I needed to forgive, and it was almost like a choice of my will. Video: Yeah. Rachel: Rather that I didn't feel like it, I didn't. I, I knew in my head God wanted me to, and it was a good idea. You know, it says in the Lord's Prayer, um, forgive though, uh, what's it say? It says, forgive us our sins. So forgive us for the things that you've done wrong, Lord, as we forgive [00:38:00] others. Yeah. And I can remember it. I'd be like, God, why have you made it so intertwined? Why have you? But it's, I think when we know how much we've been forgiven. We can then choose to extend that forgiveness to other people. But I remember praying and, and literally like it being hard to even get the words out. Yeah. But once I'd done it, I knew that it was done. And I think it's because it was so painful. Mm-hmm. Um, and it mattered so much to me, and it was hard to do. But once I'd chosen to do it and my friend was almost like a witness in a, like, if you like. Then I knew that I'd forgiven them and it was such a relief. I've got similar Sharon: experience when, when I did move to Liverpool and it was, it was like God showed me what forgiveness actually meant, and I realized that I had to do it. Yeah. It's like, I was like, I don't want to, I realized that if I actually forgave these people, then [00:39:00] I would have to take responsibility for the way I was. And actually I'd lived my life blaming other people for the way that I was now. And I was like, but I don't want to take responsibility. I want to still be able to blame someone else and say that it's their fault. Yeah. And actually to begin with, I think it took me several weeks before I got to the point where I could actually forgive. Video: Yeah. Sharon: And, and to start with, after that, when I kind of cleared the backlog of stuff. When new stuff happened, it would still take me a few weeks before I could get to that point. Okay. But gradually with practice, it's become a lot easier. Rachel: Right. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. Oh, well, so hopefully that may be an encouragement, you know, was just sharing about our experiences. Um, I suppose the other thing that we would wanna acknowledge is that for some people like G Walker, to hear her story of her son being murdered. Or for other people that, um, have been through terrible abuse or hate crimes or other things, you know, there [00:40:00] could be some real big. Sharon: Big, big things can't there that people Absolutely. There are some things which are much harder to forgive than others. Yes. And I think it's probably worth mentioning a few things that forgiveness isn't as well Go on, because Jenny touched on a few of them. I've got a little. Good one. The things that I made a helpfulness. So, um, yeah, so Jenny mentioned that, uh, forgiveness is not necessarily forgetting. She also mentioned that it's not about waiting for the other person to say sorry or only forgiving when you feel like it. 'cause I think we'd never forgive if we waited for that to, to happen. No. But there are a few other things I think is worth mentioning and I think forgiveness is not saying that what's happened is okay. And I think the Bible is very much the opposite of that. And, and when we see Jesus dying for the things that we've done wrong, God's not saying, oh, it's okay. It doesn't matter. He's saying, actually, this does matter. It's a big deal. Rachel: Yeah. Sharon: Um, do you chip in if you've got anything? No, I've just, Rachel: [00:41:00] if you've got, like, can you think of an example? So say like, I don't know, I think sometimes people can hurt you, can't they? And be quite intentional, like they mean to hurt you, so God's not saying. Oh, it doesn't matter that they intended to hurt you. Sharon: Yeah. Rachel: You saying Sharon: actually it does matter. Yeah. And I think we need to acknowledge that it's also not pretending that it's not happened. Yeah. 'cause again, I think we can try and just sort of brush it away thinking, oh, I've just gotta forgive. So actually I'm, yeah, just gonna pretend. Okay. It's not necessarily trusting that other person again. Um, what, what Rachel: do you mean by that then? Sharon: Um, like if somebody, um, is just being abusive, I think it's possible to forgive them for the abuse, right? So actually recognize that they might not be a trustworthy character. I think we can still use wisdom, Rachel: right? Sharon: About who we can trust and who we can't trust. And Jenny also mentioned about we can put boundaries in place. Yeah. I think the, the Bible talks a lot about Video: Yeah, [00:42:00] yeah. The boundaries Sharon: between things in the physical world, but also. Emotionally and in the spiritual world. So it doesn't mean that you just let them carry on. You might need to put some distance between you and that person. And do you, do you Rachel: think it's almost like then God can do more in you and strengthen you? And heal you so that you have got, um, a chance or the ability to go, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna be walked over or taken advantage of or Yeah. And maybe bring other people around you to support you in that. Yeah. As well. Sharon: Yeah. I think it's also not good for the other person to be able to keep getting away with stuff that's wrong. Again, the Bible teaches us to confront each other about this stuff that we're doing wrong. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good for them. It's not good for other people. Video: Yeah. Sharon: So even from a sense of love, you have to go, no, actually that's not okay. Yeah. And I'm not gonna allow you to keep doing that. Rachel: Yeah. And it, that can take time, can't it, to get to that point. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:00] And you definitely need people around you to help with that. Yeah. And I think if anything comes up for you this week as you're watching, or after today when you've watched, you know, message in, because there's the WhatsApp number, isn't there? You know, it's, that's not shared publicly, but if there's anything that you just think, this is tough, I need support, then the team will pray, won't they? Yeah. Um, confidentially they will pray. Yeah. And because, um, it, you know, we, we wanna, we all want to get to a place of healing and restoration and garden. And this is part of it, isn't it? Yeah. This is God's best Sharon: for us, I'd say. Yeah. We definitely need the help from other people. I think especially. Like you say, we're in really tricky situations, or we've acted a certain way the whole, our whole lives. Um, I definitely needed support from other people to put good boundaries in my life. Yeah. Um, you can't do it on your own really. No, it's too, it's too difficult. So, yeah. Yeah. Like Rachel says, do, um, do, um, connect [00:44:00] with us and, um, we can try and put you in touch with people in your area who can Yeah. Help you do that if you are on your own? Yeah, definitely. Rachel: Definitely. And I think, I know I needed help to actually, um, forgive. When I first heard about this, I needed someone to come alongside me mm-hmm. And keep reminding me that God loved me. Yeah. And um, and it was from that place that really helped me as well to know that, you know, what went on in my life was important to God. Yeah. And let's. Let's sort some of this stuff out really. Yeah. Sharon: Yeah. I've got one last thing on forgiveness isn't, I think, uh, kind of covered it, but I think forgiveness isn't doing away with justice. So you can still forgive somebody in your heart and kind of release them from that. Yes. But actually think for this person's own good and for the good of other people, actually we need to, um, still maybe press charges or whatever and, and let the system in the, the [00:45:00] country Yeah. Actually sort that out. So yeah. Rachel: Yeah. I think Sharon: they're important things to Rachel: Yeah, acknowledge and, and, and I think, again, justice is a big topic in the Bible. You know, our legal system actually based on the 10 Commandments, isn't it? It's, which I think is fantastic. Um, but um, justice really matters to God. But I think when we, there's a verse in the Bible that says, when we forgive someone, we're actually releasing that person to God's justice. So I think if you've been through something where you feel like there's been a massive injustice, God wants you to release that person, that situation to his justice and for him to have the say in that situation. And I think that is an amazing thing because God is merciful and just, and I think. They're both, um, important. Okay. So we can, God is good. God is love. [00:46:00] And we can release those people that situation to His justice and trust him. Yeah. We can trust him in that. Yeah. Now Sharon: John posted a question. Yeah. Trying to find it. Uh, he said, do we still need to say sorry every time that we s sin? I think that's what it was. Oh, right. Even though see God Yeah. Is forgiven. What do you think? Rachel: Well. Knowing God is relational. It's not just what they call transactional. So it's not like, um, so it is about me spending time with God and sometimes when I'm praying, I feel like the Holy Spirit will go, oh, what about that? Or I'll read a verse in the Bible and I think, oh yeah, God, sorry, I messed up then. And it, it, it is through my relationship with Gods that I say. Oh Lord, I'm really sorry. Or I feel some God's really specific. So general blurry guilt is not from God specific. [00:47:00] Um, oh, Rach, your attitude there wasn't great. And I'm like, yeah, Lord, you're right. I'm sorry. Forgive me. Mm-hmm. I need to spend time with you. Please suffer my heart again or help me with my attitude. So, um, I think yes. Say sorry to God for things as he reveals them to you. Or if you read something in the Bible and you think, oh, that isn't what God wants, tell him, say you're sorry, um, which is repentance, and ask him to help you to change. There are parts of my life and my character where I'm like, God, I need you to transform them. I can't do it in my own strength. I need your Holy Spirit. To do that in my life. Yeah. But, and yeah, let, the Bible talks about almost like having accounts and keeping short accounts. Yeah. So keep a short one with God and um, even with your driving, if you are a Nike driver and you're not very kind to [00:48:00] people, bring God into that. Just as a little, I think it's important. Be kind to drivers. Sharon: Yeah. Yeah. I quite like the link that, um, Jenny brought up to do with repentance. Okay. As well. It's like, yeah, we, we do, when we receive forgiveness from God, I think, and when we realize the seriousness of our own sin, I think we can sometimes trivialize our own stuff. I think when we realize the importance of that and how God's forgiven us, yeah. It does make it that much. Easier than to pass that on to somebody else, I think. Rachel: Yeah. And it is interesting when we, it's a big topic, isn't it? When we were praying for the Ukraine and you know, you think about what's going on there or in other walls and conflicts. All of these things come from the state of our hearts, you know? And um, the Bible actually talks about [00:49:00] war and murders starting in our heart, and I think. What God's saying there is, what goes on in us really matters to him if we hate somebody that really matters to him. Um, and he, we, he wants us to bring that to him. Okay? And so, and obviously I'm not saying that we're gonna gonna start at a war, of course not. But what goes on in our lives and in our souls really matters to him, and he wants to. Help us with that. And, and he does want us to choose to do the right thing. Yeah. With his Sharon: help, he wants us to do that. Yeah. I know as well for me that, um, forgiveness has completely changed my perspective on how I feel. Um, I can remember like one person who I struggled to forgive for a while and, uh, before I could forgive them. All I could see were their faults and like they're bad at this and this and Yeah. Yeah. Like, so everything I thought about them was completely [00:50:00] negative. And after I'd forgiven them, it was like I was looking at a completely different person. Right? It's like, oh, actually they didn't, and, and they hadn't even meant to hurt me at all. But then it was like. Well, actually, they're, they're really good. And I can see this is positive and that's positive, right? And so, yeah, it was like having completely different glasses on, Rachel: right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good analogy, isn't it? It is like you can view the world differently, totally Sharon: differently. Rachel: Yeah. Or the person or the situation you can view Yeah. Differently. And that's amazing that God couldn't. Do that, I guess. Yeah. Sharon: Yeah. Was there anything else that stood out to you from Jenny's talk? Rachel: Oh, oh, so much. So much. I think, yeah, that, I think the main thing we've covered really for me is justice. That we can trust God to bring about justice, even if it might not happen immediately. I believe that he, he can do that. Sharon: Yeah, I do. I kind of think as well, [00:51:00] I've been thinking about what would a world look like without forgiveness. It's like if we can't receive forgiveness for ourselves, it's like you either have to then pretend that you didn't do anything wrong, or you live with this sense of guilt all the time, or you change what your definition of right and wrong so that you kind of, whatever you've done slips into the, this is okay bracket, and none of those are really workable. Mm-hmm. If we are changing the standard of what is right and wrong, we are just gonna be constantly changing it, dependent on how we are. And if everybody's doing that, that's not workable. But also living with that sense of guilt is not workable. 'cause it's such a burden sort with, Video: yeah. Sharon: Yeah. But also just pretending that we've not done anything or. Or maybe just doing lots of good things to compensate and to try and say, oh, I'm, I'm a good person. Really, it, it still doesn't deal with that stuff that we've done. If we've hurt someone else, it still [00:52:00] doesn't actually deal with that issue. So it's like, we need forgiveness. The world without, it just doesn't work really. Video: Yeah. Yeah. Rachel: I, I Sharon: feel like Rachel: there's another talk there. Oh, probably Sharon: go off on all sort of, so give this part Rachel: two. We could do a whole. Well, we could do a year on it in some ways, couldn't we? But yeah. Well, we just hope that this has helped, um, and that this has been an encouragement and, um, that you feel supported and that we feel supported, you know, um, in applying these truths to our lives. Yeah. Really. And, um, we just pray that God helps us all to keep on as we are forgiven, to keep on forgiving others. Absolutely. Because. That's when literally his rule, if you like, his kingdom can have a massive impact. And there are loads of people in history that have applied these principles. Nelson Mandela Classic, [00:53:00] fantastic example, another godly woman, Curry Tambo, survivor of the Holocaust, and make Google her. You'll be amazed at what you read about her and her life. G Walker, another one. Um, people that have been through terrible, terrible things, so, and people that have been through everyday things like us Video: Yeah. Rachel: As well. Video: Yeah. Rachel: So, you know, we just encourage you in that. And, um, I think probably we should. Wrap that up because, yeah. 'cause I, again, chef, I feel like we could talk for a long time. Sharon: Yeah. I think any subject that you start on, it seems small when you start and then just Yeah. Yeah. Expands as you go. Yeah. I'm not sure how well we've kept up with the comments do. Oh, we, we've tried, we've tried and Rachel: um, apparently Matt's got some. Car forgiveness to go and apply. Is that right? Yeah, I when, Sharon: yeah, when you were talking about driving, I, I did think about him, but I chose not to mention his name. It's alright. He's, he's, [00:54:00] I mean, he's been asked and he's, he's Rachel: answered honestly. So there we go. Done. Matt will give you an update on that, won't you, Matt, when you get back. Really? Video: Yeah. Rachel: So before we finish, we are gonna have another song, aren't we? We have, what is it? Uh, can't remember. I, yeah. Graces Gardens. Oh yeah. Grace Sharon: Grays Gardens. Yeah. And that, that song's all about how God can turn the, the really bad things in our life and can turn them around into something amazing. Uh, so we're gonna finish with that. And after the songs ended, the live stream will automatically finish, and next week we have. Peter Farrington talking about something to do with Easter Rachel: because next week is Easter Sunday. Yeah, Sharon: yeah, yeah. Rachel: Brilliant. Sharon: So, uh, thanks for joining us everyone. Thank you, and I hope to see you next week. Bye Rachel: bye. See you.[00:55:00]