14: Birth Trauma: Processing & Overcoming

I pray it like with the birth I prayed for this amazing birth it didn't happen it was actually really traumatic and I really struggled to get my head around that and felt like I'd failed I felt like my fear had failed I felt like I didn't have enough there because the book that I read kind of implied that it was my faith that didn't make it happen I was just kind of like oh it's my fault I got an A Fifth and yeah just that whole struggle of like what do you do when they're suffering um what do you do when things don't go when things are sunshine and mirrors when things don't go foreign welcome to what's the story my name is Matt Edmondson and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people and today I'm chatting with the legendary Beth copenhall about learning how not to overthink things oh yes we are getting into that but before I get into all things Beth uh one thing that I do love to do is give a shout out to past guest and episodes and given the topics we are going to be talking about today about motherhood glandular fever all kinds of things I thought it would be great to mention uh the live stream we did called faith and motherhood does it make a difference that was done on a Mother's Day with Sally Burch you can check that one out and also check out the talk by John Harding journey through the wall you can find these and our entire Archive of episodes and live streams on our website for free at www.crowd.church and whilst you're there be sure to sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email you the links along with the notes from the conversations they go direct your inbox totally free totally amazing now this episode is brought to you by crowd online Church Beth I'm sure you know them as well as I do not everybody can go to church not everybody wants to go to church not everybody can make it to a church building and this is where online Church works really really well it is a safe space to explore the Christian faith and the thing that I love about crowd online church is that you get to join in and shape the conversation oh yes so if you have never been to church before or if you're looking for a new church to join do check out crowd Church the website is www.crowd.church and if you've got any questions email me directly at Matt crowd.church I will try my very best to answer them oh yes now Beth what can I say about Beth I've known Beth for a little while uh she is Yorkshire born a full-time Mama of two she loves writing it's actually a brilliant writer she loves marketing brilliant marketing and crafting with the kids I don't know whether she's brilliant at that but let's just go with yes uh and she blogs regularly at bethcoppenhall.com if you want to read some of Beth's blog posts which I suggest you do beth welcome to the podcast welcome to what's the story great to have you here how you doing I'm good hello yeah good now this is a little uh reminiscent I feel you and I doing video conversations together it's very strange it's like going back in time except I've now got two kids yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely so uh just talking about skin care well you can totally talk about asking I should probably explain dear uh listener and viewer uh if you don't know the story of Bethany why would you uh Beth and I used to work together before uh the two kids came along and Beth was our uh what was your title Chief marketing I don't even I don't actually remember it was something queen of content or something yeah well Queen I can't remember Queen it was Queen it had Queen in the title yeah definitely definitely had the queen in the title and Beth used to handle all our marketing and all our content and so uh yeah quite quite often we would find ourselves just sat together in front of a video camera talking about everything from skincare to e-commerce to whatever crazy idea year I had that day and so yeah it's just it's just it's quite nice Beth you and I don't video again it's quite it's quite reminiscent it's quite lovely yes yes oh no it's great to be here so other than uh working with me uh you which is obviously one of the key highlights uh of Life uh you've got two beautiful kids uh and a beautiful husband and you live here in sunny Liverpool but your accent is Yorkshire born right yes that's why I put that there because I thought if anyone's listening and it's like what are you saying I'm from Yorkshire and I haven't ever left my accent I'm quite proud of it actually but it does get a lot of comments good comments or bad comments oh a mixture to be honest but like excuse me this is my accent I can't do anything about it this is who I am one of my friends who's like 92 and she came round and she and I was offering her a piece of cake this was pretty recently I said she wants some plate Gina do you want some cake and she genuinely didn't know what I was on about for a long time and then I appreciate it oh hey [Laughter] hey that's funny the cursed it as in what you put a hot drink on yeah and people looked a bit like a bit blank yeah yeah so if I say any words that you think need a bit of translation for your wider audience that's fine yeah I'll try and translate my father is from uh your part of the world from from Yorkshire so I'm I'm used to the accent and I'm used to the language and the lingo but it was great actually when you worked at the office just having that accent that strong in our office so be proud of it Beth be proud of it I would be yeah there was also another one there isn't there there's still a Yorkshire person in Mount Jackson at the hill well you know you were you were it's funny isn't it uh how when you two talk you sort of bring each other's accents out yeah yeah that is a yacht thing like so when I go back to my mum and Dad's Terry's I don't know what you say the most eight years we also find people like Yorkshire people find people that are from Yorkshire so obviously I'm living in Liverpool been here for like 12 years but I will find the Archer people and like they will be my friends just sort of gravitate towards each other yeah we do it's a thing I was telling someone this the other day I was like yeah we just find each other yeah no fair play fair play so you've been in Liverpool 12 years uh you came as a student um were you a Christian when you came to Liverpool nope nope I wasn't a Christian um so my story starts with I guess a Praying mum so my mum was became Christian when she was 13. um and she's always prayed for me but she she took me to church and she wasn't part of like a little House Church um but um she said she took me there quite a lot but when I was little but I don't remember going much in high school like and yeah when I was at Uni I didn't even it wasn't even a thing I wasn't like I'm going to church when I go to UNI just wasn't a Christian yeah it's uh I came it's actually quite cool how I came to Liverpool because I put Newcastle down I was very like I think I still am getting over this I always want the best grade always want the top so I really wanted to go to Newcastle University and they wanted really high grades and I put Liverpool University as my second choice which everyone told me not to do my pharmaceutical was like why would you do that I want they want the same grades and I was like I don't really want to go to anywhere else so I'm just going to put where I want to go I'm not why would I put something that I don't want to go just because it's lower grades um and yeah Newcastle were like no because I didn't quite make it I got an A and two B's but my B's are really good yeah and I think Liverpool obviously God was in it because in hindsight like that's it brought me here for a reason but um but yeah Liverpool they had a bit of like oh yeah she can come she got two Herbies we'll let her off we'll let her off that one okay yeah ended up here like it wasn't my first choice but I loved it I loved this love the city I wanted to be somewhere like Leeds but different so I wanted my own independence but I do quite like being a northerner and I like I think northern city is quite friendly so I want I didn't want it too far from home so yeah it tipped all my boxes so I can see why you chose Liverpool or Newcastle because they're sort of equidistant from Leeds aren't they and they're both Northern tails and they're actually all quite similar to each other in feel and friendliness I think a Newcastle is a great City Liverpool's a great City Leeds is a great city um and so yeah I can see why why are those choices but you weren't so what happened then um when you came to UNI if you weren't a Christian you're right so you've got a Praying mum you've not really gone to church um and you've sort of ended up at Uni here what happened so not a right lot for the first two years so I was very studious wanted the best grids like I said I also was a big people pleaser I wanted to be everybody's friend again still something that I'm getting over like so I kind of did all the things that you should do when you're a student and went to all the lectures but also I was a bit of a mess because I did all the binge drinking and partying and yeah just like it's a it's a weird blur of a time because I think I think I was pretty anxious but I didn't realize like I was asking my mum back the other day and she was like if anyone said are you all right you just be like yeah I'm totally fine I don't need help I don't need anything like I was just like I'm fine I've got this but then in my between second and third year I decided to go into railing so um you get a special train ticket you're allowed on all the trains around yeah so that was really cool but like I did not expect it to change my life in the way that it changed my life and I knew when I was there I was like something weird is happening because I remember seeing a picture on the wall I can't remember what it said now it's really gonna bug me but something about you know like getting lost and finding yourself and something reflective like that and I just I really was kind of going on this I guess I I thought a lot when I was there kind of thing like and I came back home and I had a glandular fever from partying too much well but nobody knew they had glandular fever so like people kept saying um it's fresh as flu and I was like I'm not a fresher I kept going to the doctors they're like it's fresh as well I was like I'm not a fresher this cough is not going away I do not feel well like not me like I don't feel well please like um and then I was in a Shakespeare lecture one day and a mature student so someone that's gone to unit older um came up to me and was like you that cough has been I'm a mature student I used to be a nurse that cough has been on my ward you need to go get it checked out I was like I keep getting it checked out but they keep saying it's like fresh or slow she was like not fresher float you need to get checked out so I think that was the thing that pushed me to getting some more tests and then eventually I have all these missed calls been like you know well we need to see him yeah I went yellow I got a better draw on this because the type of glandular fever that I had affected my white blood cells not my red ones so I had a bit like my liver was not doing so great again probably because I was drinking lines as well like it's a combination of things but I was a mess and I felt like I look back and like I was like wow I was really quite broken like I wanted the best grades I wanted to please everybody I'm just some sort of they really care about myself and then this like going into really made me stop a bit and then going having gone to a fever made me stop a bit because I couldn't actually be at Uni I couldn't be in the lectures that I wanted to be in and so it was really frustrating time really difficult time went back to Leeds um I was really anxious because my goal was to get a really good grid but then I couldn't get a really good grade because I was just I was just really ill I had post viral fatigue so like I'd be all right in the house sometimes I could be like Oh I'm all right but if I go out I'd just like be so so tired and just yeah just like just really wiped out I had a job as well at the time in the shop um and that was really difficult in itself because they gave me sick leave but then they were like oh we shouldn't have given you that so that I had to work for free oh wow I had to like work about the hours like so I was like really sick and yeah I was going on it was a bit of a mess but in the middle of that my mum took me to a church service so at the time God had told us to go to a new church you used to go to House Church go to a new church because right she also had my littlest brother so this 17 year age gap between me and my littlest brother well if he was going to church with Benjamin he was a toddler at the time and I I don't think I've been at a house in a while and she just kept taking me to a church and I looked back I'm like she just kept taking me to a house group to a church like and I remember going to a baptism one day and there was this there was this girl there and she stood and she's gonna get baptized and she's like I love Jesus I love Jesus I love Jesus and then she gets baptized and I'm like what what is this like honestly and then this guy got off and he was sad he was just like went to UNI um with my girlfriend like um made quite a lot of mistakes like he was into the partying culture and then he found God and like you could tell there was something about his life that was different and I could not get away from that like I didn't tell anyone yeah because why would I like I was like had this am I right am I right am I right even though I clearly wasn't and like so I didn't tell anyone that I um thinking about Jesus I just kind of like kept thinking about Jesus and thinking maybe he's real how does that change my life I'm not really sure and then the church Mosaic that my mum went to um I found online that they did basically like an alpha course online it was called intro so it was about like six podcasts where it was just them answering questions about Jesus um and I was like just secretly listen to it in my University bedroom like just would put it on just like I didn't want anything to know yeah it was just like secretly listening and then I remember in the day when I was like right I I am convinced convince convinced that this is real and so I like my University bedroom was locked so you know Les Mis was in cinema at the time okay I remember seeing that and again it was just like God was on me like I was like went to see that and I was just like I'm gonna cry like all this stuff about Grace I was like oh my goodness like this is so real so it goes back to my university room I'd like knelt down and I just knew that Jesus was there like I just knew that it was in front of me like I could feel his presence he was just standing up and I knew he was there I knew he was in front of me I had such a like mad Encounter With Jesus like and I had a picture in my head of like this massive gate like I think it was like the Gates of Heaven just opening and like I just chose to go go in and I was just like yes God yes like and I remember having another picture of like three girls um and I don't know if that's like because my Nana's Christian my mom's Christian I'm Christian I don't know um but it was just really really like clear like it was just like it was amazing and like it was so real to me as well like in the middle of all I was just like this is so real like but I'm still at the mess I was still anxious I still was stressing about how I'm gonna pass my like University degree didn't know how it changed my life didn't understand that bit right just was like this is mad and it's happening and I'm just gonna go with it wow that's that's quite a it's quite a fascinating story there's a lot in there Beth I'm really curious when you were listening to the podcast from the church and you said you were in your room and you were listening to it you didn't want anybody to know no why was that I don't know I think maybe I was worried about what they would think of me because that was a thing for me anyway I was like such a peep so wrapped up in people raising and this was like me doing what I wanted you know this was me choosing my own path and like I've never really done that up until that point I had in a little bit of wears you know like I really like English literature and language and that's what I wanted to study so and I loved my degree but um but I think it was just like the first time where actually I could face loads of rejection but I wanted it and I wanted to choose my own path in that way but it was mad like I remember I didn't tell my mom and I went to my mum's church around it was like all January 2013 but I never remember which bit happened when um because I was still ill and I was still like struggling myself so about January 2013 somewhere in this like I think I had given my life to Jesus and I went to Mosaic the my mum's church and she I didn't want anyone to know like I don't know why I'm like but again God still wants me like he sent me of a person that had glandular fever like get that like had glandular fever like and like she had a picture for me of like an iron ironing out a tie and I know all the places in my life and I was like ah and then the service I don't even know what it was but I just remember I wanted to cry the whole time and then my mum was balling and she told her and she just felt like she was like I felt like I had the like those tears for you like I had your tears I felt like God said I had your tears because I was just like I'm not gonna cry in front of people why would I do that I was just very like I don't want anyone to know wow yeah your mom sounds like an absolute Legend uh in all of this and um you know go Beth man wait uh that's awesome so uh you go to Mosaic uh which is the word you're saying Mosaic Mosaic Mosaic the church and this is a Church in Leeds which is obviously a mum's church and you uh you have more encounters with God and so at this point you're still struggling with glandular fever so did that carry on for a while what happens sort of next so the person that I told you about who sat in front of me she was called uh she had gone to the fever and we just made a friendship and she helped me um through she was like she just really helped me understand like okay this is what if I were you this is what I do about University this is what I do about this situation this is what I do about this situation in relation to glandular fever she really helped me like make a plan to get through then when I went back to Liverpool I kind of had that little plan and I was like I'm going to find a church now I had done some Facebook stalking so I knew a Christian and then I also done some Googling because Mosaic at the time so actually it was just the first time I went to Mosaic it was a big Warehouse big Warehouse Church yeah into 2013 I think that's when they split into three churches and the one that my mum goes to still goes to now is in a school um but I really liked the kind of big Warehouse Vibe so I did a bit of Googling about I wanted to go to church like Mosaic but in Liverpool it's like my uni story I love again yeah yeah just like Leeds but in the book yeah um I found Frontline Frontline Church in Rivertree and um because one of my high school friends went there and it was amazing like I remember going there on the morning I remember the preach like so I don't remember all the preachers I went to at the moment was it I remember going to Frontline I remember Julie Connolly preaching about spiritual warfare and it was just like incredible and I went to the 10 30 service which is morning service very friendly and this old man grabbed my shoulder and he was like come back at six okay oh wow okay you go to jail for things like that yeah nothing like I just secretly did all this nobody knew anything like gets in the taxi again goes back at six walks in and my friend from high school was there she grabs me on shoulder she's like what are you doing here and then that was you know like I just cried and cried through the whole service exactly the same talk Julie did again and I just cried I just knew that I was her like like I'd found like I was like I don't know it was just incredible I was just like I'm home like this is this is it like and then after that I started telling people so how did it go with your housemates and the people that you were trying to hide all of this from when you told them yeah mix mixed bag really make bag some people were like what's happened in your life I want to know and some people were like this is weird don't want to know um yeah so it was a really weird time and I think that time of your life is weird anyway you know the last year of uni who are you going to keep in touch with yeah like where are you going to live because that affects things doesn't it like different people then move to do Masters to do to go back home to their Hometown to do Gap years like so it's really like weird time anyway and I think that then throw in something like this big life change into it was just a bit like some people don't want to know um some people very kindly didn't want to know you know like kind of like well that's a bit weird but yeah like you do you leave me out of it it wasn't like I'm gonna reject you it was just like you do you I'm going this way you're going that way but I still love each other like but yeah there was a lot there was a fair amount of like rejection in there though like it wasn't easy but you you start to then get um connected to Frontline Church which is the church where the crowd church is connected actually that came out crouchers came out from lunches and that's where we met wasn't it uh going back a long time ago so fast forward um how many years it is what now uh nine years has life been all sort of sunshine and rainbows for you you know you did you get better of glandular fever you sort of overcome your people approval thing and and welcome welcome well Beth has arrived no and that is one of my you just summarized what my biggest struggle is basically because in my head that is what it's supposed to happen like and uh I was a bit like hey like well like life is quite difficult still and so I think the week after so I went to front line and I think the week after or maybe a couple of weeks after I met my husband wasn't then my husband obviously because I've just been really weird if he was here I met Terry and I also met you and Sharon on the same day and a bunch of other cool people as well then it was at your house I think I may oh it might it was it yeah I think it was yeah it was the student loans thing wasn't it yeah yeah um so yeah so it was in one sense it was like sunshine and rainbows because like my whole life had changed and me and Terry like met and we quickly got married the year after but the anxiety didn't go like there was a long road to Healing with the glands of fever I didn't get instantly healed um and then I've had other underlying illnesses since which like yeah that's been a big challenge kind of understanding like why would a good God let someone suffer and that's been a big question um why don't my prayers get answered when I'm praying to be healed that's been a big question um I had joy in my first um my first born in May 2019 and I pray again like I expect things to be like sunshine and rainbows like I prayed for this amazing birth like I got this book like was all about praying for this amazing birth and it kind of messed me up a bit because really like Jesus promises suffering like he says um what does he say yeah in this world you will suffer but like how I overcome the world you will have trouble but take out I ever from the world um and yeah like I think it's been just quite a journey of like I pray like with the birth I prayed for this amazing birth it didn't happen it was actually really traumatic and I that and I felt like I'd failed I felt like my faith had failed I felt like I didn't have enough Faith because the yeah um and so yeah I was just kind of like oh it's my fault I definitely faith and yeah just that whole struggle of like what do you do when they're suffering when things arched sunshine and mirrors so yeah that's a really it's a really interesting statement because I I've not seen it as much in recent times but suddenly there was a period where there was this sort of movement which said if you have faith you can move mountains which is you know very I I get the scriptural reference for that but it became this thing where actually if you wanted anything from God it was all down to your faith and if you didn't have faith you wouldn't get it and if you weren't getting it therefore it was because you had weak faith and whilst that was never said uh it was it was it was implied it was implicit in the statement that if you have faith you can move mountains and you reverse engineer that you say well if the Mountain's not moving then I've not got faith and it was a really interesting time I think for people because I think there are times where actually people's unbelief does prevent the movement of God but I I think that they're a lot rarer than we think they are in in a lot of ways too I mean and so I'm curious um having you've obviously haven't gone through that or what what are some of the lessons that you've learned as a result of that oh I don't even know where to start so if you read my blogs like I've logged through the whole thing and there's a lot of different lessons on there because like yeah my head was a mess I was just like oh I need to sort this out because I didn't understand it like I was just like I prayed for this thing to happen um but you know what it is the biggest lesson I've learned actually has come to me so I am a feeling person and you know like I've explained what happened in my testimony like God speaks to me like very clearly through pictures and very clearly through like I can hear him I can feel him like his presence like that's important to me and that's a gift but like for me I felt like I'd failed when I had a traumatic birth I felt like my fear had failed it wasn't good enough that like and it was a feeling of like feeling that failed feeling like it wasn't good enough feel it and like I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is like know your Bible because some some lies will feel so so true like some lies will be so crafty like the enemy is quite crafty and it kind of bases are untruth but then he obviously it's not true and I feel like I've been so successful it's having a word so yeah it's a good word yeah you should know you've got the English language it's acceptable to that because I feel it was just you know like this little you don't you didn't have enough Faith about like an affair for that you don't have enough fear for that like and it was just it felt true it felt real but like now and it sometimes it still feels real and I have to tell myself that's not true Beth that like that's not true like I know that fifth like as small as a mustard seed can move mountains also the parable that kept coming to my head throughout this whole time was the one where the so some Pals have got a friend who needs healing and they cut the roof open to get him in front of Jesus and they put him in and this is you know the Bible by Beth here that's great I'm loving it I'm loving it in the Bible I wonder actually just as a total aside here I do wonder if there is a Yorkshire version of the Bible I've seen this gas Bible I'm gonna I'm gonna Google it later is there a Yorkshire version the um my dad's bookshelf the other way there was an excellent book about Yorkshire people who had faith and like honestly the first page was brilliant it was like Yorkshire people have grit and here actually I love this book that's true there's a bunch of Christian people with grits like yeah very true but yeah anyway so in the in the back in the back going back to the Bible so there's a couple of guys they've got the pal in East healing it's paralyzed man they put him down through the roof Jesus is there and Jesus heals him and he forgives his sin as well um I think if they were around but he looks at their friends and he said it's your friend's faith like that's healed you oh that's me I really could do with this in front of me I feel like I'm absolutely ruining this sorry like but he talked about the friends faith and I kept coming back to that because I was like my friends were praying for me that whole time you know like even if I don't have enough Faith I've got like so many friends praying for me that I've got more fifth than I do you know they've got Mrs worth but it didn't happen and it's because I think you know like we live in a fallen world like one day there will be no sickness like and one day Jesus will wipe away every tear um but like here it's not like that and like I think going through what I've been through has definitely It's Made Me cling to God in a way that I think just yesterday like I did a preach at church and okay I was walking her later then I then went to do some work and at coffee shop and I was walking home and I was just thinking about the question I was thinking that was mad like God used my most painful moments to reach someone else there you know like you know he just like he makes everything work together for God and it's such a privilege to watch him do that in your life like you do not think that that's ever going to be the case when you're in those painful moments when you're like dealing with drama and you're like but I didn't pray for this God but then if you let him in like if you let him he will just turn the whole thing around and like it is amazing to watch you know like like yesterday like I didn't even feel like I was really speaking like I was dead nervous about preaching yeah and I just shared these stories from from really like the moments where I was like God where are you what have you done like have you left me like it says you're here like I'm surely I've got very small as mustard seeds really my friends have got first ones must see and like I was able to share those stories with people and watch those people know more about a God who loves them and it was just incredible like yeah and someone gave me that verse before I went in to be induced with my with joy my first one so I went in for an induction and um I was really scared and someone gave me the verse all things work together for good um does he love God and I didn't get it then and like but that has just been my testimony you know like he's taking like the darkest moments the worst moments there must be painful moments and like I just keep watching him like as he turned it around like he's amazing but that's awesome I it's I mean it's not awesome in in one sense that you've had to go through what you've gone through but it I think the the thing that I've always loved about you um is your absolute commitment to be totally transparent true and authentic right you always know exactly where you're at because when you say how you're doing you'll say well blah blah blah right and I think um it's it's interesting because part of me part of the problem I think people have had over the years is you go to church and church people feel like they have to say oh life is good at least it was for a season I mean because it's like well Faith talks positive doesn't it and so they you'd ask some questions life is good and so if you were struggling you could look at somebody and go well their life is good my life is pants why why am I struggling of course they're asking the same question over there and it's all masks there's there's a lot of masks going on there's there's not a lot of authenticity sometimes that I'm being totally disparaging about the church but it is we have had these Seasons where we have been uh too unwilling to actually be truthful uh about how we feel and the questions that we have forgot because we feel like we can't have them um and so it's great that you did and it's great that you've sort of wrestled with that over the years so where where are things at now right so you going back to the sort of the supernatural trial birth thing that you were praying for and it didn't happen and that sort of you know you felt like you failed God and you felt like your faith failed when did that turn around in your thinking and how did it turn around in your thinking um well I owe a lot to your wife your wonderful wife Sharon um I remember so I wrestled with God a lot by myself and was like why have you done but also I had a newborn baby and I have to say um the trauma was traumatic but then having Joy meant that I was able to focus on Joy so I had this moment in the bathroom after it happened where I genuinely just thought oh my goodness you idiot you failed like you nearly killed your baby because because you you didn't like let them intervene sooner and you wanted this Supernatural childbirth that like and I just felt all this condemnation like I remember and in the bathroom all this condomination you didn't have an affair you nearly let this happen What like but then I had to cry about it and then I just cracked on being a mum because I absolutely love my daughter and she just brought so much joy to me she really like I loved it I absolutely loved it like um but then lockdown happened in 2020 so she was probably about 10 months I think 20 10 months and then that's when I really wrestled it out and I was like what is going on and then I got pregnant in 2020 yeah I got pregnant in 2020 with my second and I started getting anxiety attacks and I was like what is going on and I was like I think I need to deal with this like I need to deal with this trauma there was some Clues along the way no one thing that I did all the time so I know a lot about trauma now but one thing I did all the time was I was talk about birth at like I would just talk about birth that whole year and ask people how the births were I was a bit obsessed with it and I look back and that is actually called is it ruminating so when you when you talk about it and you can't get past it that's actually um a symptom of ptse of trauma so and then I started getting panic attacks because I was pregnant and it got to 2021 I was like I'm gonna give birth to this child in April and how am I gonna do that and I remember going to meet a friend who had two kids and she had two amazing births and I just had this like little script panic attack and I was like I need to get over this I need to do something so then I rang up um I was talking Sharon at the time and that was very very helpful like um incredible and then um a couple of people had mentioned to um that there was this person called Hannah Sloan who went Frontline and um I should really get in touch with her because she does both trauma therapy and she's Christian so I rang her up and I was like Hannah this is what's happened to me told her about all the the feeling like I didn't have enough fear for this perfect birth feeling like you know like it was my fault and she was like right okay like come see me so I did sessions with her and it was incredible it was really good like just understanding how trauma works I think sometimes as Christians like we don't go down we stay too much down the non-medical route you know like where Hannah was actually like what's happened to you is a thing it's called PTSD like and these are the symptoms and I was like oh wow I have those symptoms she's just like yeah like I think you've got it you know like and I think as Christians sometimes we think we're immune to these things like it's just a spiritual thing that we're going through or whatever but actually like I had PTSA and um yeah like within those four sessions the main symptoms were no more um and it was just the thing that was left with was just like me and God and working that bit out you know like so where do we go from here God like because I couldn't I won't really praying around a lot when job from when Joe was born I remember actually talking to my pastor and being like I'm not praying a lot like a car and I didn't really again I didn't really put it all down to the drama but um but yeah it kind of works itself out getting I got some got some therapy spoke a lot to Sharon like weekly I think and um just had yeah some support and yeah just kind of watched through that and was was just got questions all the time and yeah like yeah I think I've come out of it like the other end I feel so what happened was all this stuff I was gonna say because you you obviously had a second child so how did that birth go so I got to a place where I think this is why this is what happened I got to a place where in the last session Hannah was like what do you want to do so we planned for each eventuality of giving birth like and I got a debrief as well with my Midwife um and she was literally like Betty did amazing you like went to nine centimeters with no with like no I don't know medication or whatever just gas in there um and the baby was stuck your baby was back to back and apparently bit back to back babies are more painful but she didn't move she literally didn't move and on my notes that there's a picture of her head as soon as that should the Midwife had drawn ahead as soon as I'd gone in because this respected that she was in a funny position and that was like as soon as I went in she never moved so you know you just like look back he just like she wasn't gonna move she wasn't ever you know like she was stuck of course I was going to end up in a C-section like um but and so that gave me Clarity and then speaking to Hannah really helped me we had like this is what happened so we had loads of different options and I decided to try for a v back it's a a natural birth after um caesarean I hate the word natural but like yeah that's what we're going with so I was like I'm gonna try for that and it was just really I got to a place where even if I had another C-section like I knew that that was okay I knew that God still love me and he was all right and the birth of Judah was incredible it was really Redemptive actually because um I went into labor naturally I didn't have to get induced at 39 weeks 39 plus three or something and then and it was funny because no one else expected me to I'm like so I was like I think I had a bit of Faith then like for this and I was like God you know I really like that but you know like I've got to a place where Anything could happen and I still love you and I know you're still not gonna be with God yeah and I was told that I was having a girl as well so I was expecting another girl and then so then the labor happens naturally this time and then everyone like left me like cat was supposed to be after Joy she was somewhere and then cat's like my best friend and and then Terry was like I need to go to work if this is going to happen it's Prince Philip's funeral just watching Prince Philip's funeral and then I was like right okay so wait for them to get back and then I was like should we go to hospital now so then went to hospital I was dehydrated because no one had been feeding me or giving me any drink like I was just offending for myself and then when I drank just basically it was just really surreal it was really calm really quiet on the lodge there was one Midwife who didn't say a right lot to me and then all of a sudden she goes about nine o'clock she was like I think you love this babe nine o'clock on Sunday morning she was like I think you'll have this baby within the hour and I could not believe it like I remember sitting down and saying to God God I don't know what's going to happen I don't know if I'm progressing I don't know what's happening I'm really anxious I'm really stressed right now please help me I mean it's like it's going to be okay like you're gonna have this baby it's gonna be okay like and it was just amazing it was just I think you know like people want you to think that um you can have this terrible birth and then you can have this amazing butterfly birth after it if you go through ABCD experience but I did the therapy I did the praying like and it wasn't butterflies but God was so real and he was so there like and Judah popped out and everyone thought I remember the Midwife being like oh I've got something to show you because he was a boy and that told me was a girl surprise I didn't care I literally didn't care I was given the name Judah in the first trimester yeah I felt that name on my heart because I was watching her preach by Judas Smith and he was saying about how Leah in the Bible um was in this battle with her sister like comparison more and then by baby number four she gives up and she says now I'm gonna praise God and I think I was in that place I was like do you know what I'm not battling anymore I don't care yeah yeah whatever if that person over there is only hypnobirth or if that person over there as I'm in a supernatural childbirth like I will praise God and like there's a song called yes I will by vertical worship I think and that song was just like the song of you they're like it was just yes I will lift you high in the lowest Valley like yes I'm gonna do this like I'm gonna praise you no matter what happens and it was a different kind of Faith because I don't know it's just it's more great like the doctor book oh great yolks Jesus was the yorkshireman is is what they tell me so um Well I this fun I love that that it was Redemptive and they're actually in the second child but it's one of those things isn't it as a Christian you pray for God's uh blessing and you pray for what you think is the best um and when that doesn't happen how you respond is quite interesting um and I love the difference between the first one and the second one so the first one you pray for something and you feel all kinds of failure as a result the second time it's like well I'm going to pray for this but I don't know what's going to happen but I'm going to praise you anyway uh because God I'm in your hands and actually that's quite an extraordinary journey to take it takes people years sometimes to Jeremy into sort of figure that whole thing out as a question so what's your out of all of this then Beth you know um what's your what's been your take what's your one message I mean you spoke at church yesterday um I I don't know if they give you a topic or whether you sat down and thought Oh this will be the you know what I would talk about what's the the thing the overriding thing that God has taught you oh gosh I think yeah like some of the stuff I've been talking about really just like I think it do you know what it is like my blog is a lot about hearing God and like you know stay close to him hear him like listen to what he's got to say to you like he is the best friend you could ever ever ever wish for you know like he's always been there he's always got something to say to me about everything and like the points that I struggled is the points where I've like pushed him out a bit and like kept your mouth arms length like but actually you know like he he understood like he he understood that I was upset about the birth trauma he knew I was going through what I needed like um and I think hearing God for yourself um yeah knowing your Bible and like not going with those feelings and not going with what other people tell you but just having your own faith and walking that Journey with God is like also like so so important I love to I love to hear people like get go for themselves you know like oh even for themselves like um yeah I think it's yeah really like crucial that's awesome so is that if you could somehow magically uh go back in time and have a conversation with yourself as you're heading into hospital with um to give birth to Joy is that the advice that you would give to yourself at that point yeah I'd just be like Beth like be careful what you believe like sticked close to God stay close to God like and don't don't read a book about God and think it's God like you you know like there's loads of books out there that say they're about God and maybe they're they're about one person's version of God like who's your god who is your god instead close to him because like go to the Bible like the god that you that I met when I was in that room in University like he's the one that's been fearful to me and I think it's so important to have your own fear and to not get stuck in a bit of a comparison and not just absorb everything you read I think I'm a bit easily influenced sometimes this is well it's and it's not just you to be I think here's the thing about books right and the thing that I've noticed about books when you read them is especially Christian books or testimonial books as we like to call them but story books they're always inspiring because they there's there's Amazing Stories amazing Journeys that people go on and you and they talk about why God did this and this breakthrough happened and that happened and it's all fantastic and wonderful but between those two mounting points you know this happened it was amazing this happened it was amazing there's often big valleys and Times of just utter boredom German and it's just the everyday grind of life but you don't write about those in books because there's not enough space as you don't know what to say you just want to tell the stories to encourage people and it's like well yes this is my story you know and I want to encourage you um it's why we do these podcasts but it's the rest of it you know that we don't get to hear about and when we just compare our lives where 80 of is boring 80 of it is routine you know to all these amazing stories that people have over here we can come across or come up you know some come off feeling quite bad and that's the danger of books uh and and I think as long as when we read a book we understand that we're okay yeah we say what is God saying to me throughout this whole thing is is probably the bit the biggest question to ask right yeah that is the biggest question and that's the question I asked before I blow up all the time I'm like God what are you saying to me this week and I think if if I could inspire people to say that question for themselves like that is what I want that's who I want to be that's what I want the message I want to say like because I think that yeah if if you know him as your friend like like that is one of the biggest things that changed my life you know just knowing him as a friend like and if when you are reading a book you know like asking what he thinks about it don't just read it and be like even if it's a really good book and like you know like the person is sound and they've got really good theology like still asking what he thinks about it because that makes stuff go from just reading it to actually being like Oh I'm gonna like yeah understand it for myself I'm gonna like like Let It Go in for myself yeah what does this mean for makeup what are you saying to me it's a really it's a really interesting thing I I wish I had time to get into it a little bit more but there's so much more to say on this um Beth question for you oh someone's at the door uh imagine you are at the Oscars right yeah um and you've just won your Lifetime Achievement Award whatever it is and you get a moment to thank those folks that have had a big impact on your life whether family members mentors authors preachers books whatever it is I'm curious who are you thanking who are you who you stood up and saying I want to thank dot dot dot and one well I think I've mentioned a few of them haven't I like so obviously praying mums out there like my story started with a Praying mum so don't give up like my mum is amazing my dad became Christian when soon after I did um he's he's always been amazing um but you know like you when Sharon you and Sharon absolutely like I was thinking about this recently like you literally like I don't know anyone I remember being in your house man and like you just let me be like and I didn't really know who I was I was messed I was messed up I was broken I was lost and like you didn't need anything from me you didn't want anything from me like you you guys just love me and like I've never experienced anything like it in my life and you have been there since I feel like I could cry since day one and like you've never given up on me or Terry like you've met you have never you've always loved us you've always like shown as such Grace and like sometimes you show me Grace and I'm like but it's literally mind-blowing like I'm like Terry look what's just happened like oh look what Max just said like oh look what listen to what Sharon did today are like you know like and I think yeah you'd get a massive thank you both for you yeah let's change our lives and I'm not just saying that because because you do this podcast because you're the podcast types yeah and I appreciate it uh Beth blushing no it's wonderful it's very kindly to say yeah it's true but yeah and then there's loads of other people on the way isn't it like community community is very important and I'm very very fortunate to be part of a really good Community yeah and your husband obviously yeah and your kids that's so bad we do this no he's never going to let you live it down no he's not he actually won't let me live it down it's just going to be like can't believe you didn't thank me on the poker wait now's your time to say you know you think you actually thank you so much sorry for being with me through thick and then yeah I think me and Terry have been on like quite a Journey where we've been through stuff together um yeah like yeah it's a different kind of thank you isn't it like obviously it's still a thank you but like yeah it's your life partner isn't it and I think you're creating just wonderful people uh and um it's it's great to have you on the podcast so thank you for joining us but thank you for sharing your story if people want to reach out if people want to connect with you what's the best way to do that um well you can read or what I've just said on my blog bethcopnoll.com you can read some moments of being like why God and also someone's been like wow God did this amazing day and I think you can contact me on there as well yeah no bethcopenhall.com uh do check it out uh very inspiring blog and it's you kind of you do get sucked into the emotion uh of it all but Beth is a very good writer so uh yes Beth thank you so much for joining us you've been an absolute Legend uh I'm looking forward to seeing what people say you know as the result of this coming out and um you know who listens to it so we will of course uh link to best info in the show notes which you can get for free along with the transcript at crowd.church www.crowd.church or if you signed up to the newsletter it will come direct to your inbox if you're not signed up to the newsletter sign up to the newsletter hashtag to sing so there you have it another fantastic conversation another huge brilliant wonderful story uh Beth again thank you for joining me now remember to check out crowd online church at www.crowd.church you know the domain now uh even if you might not see the point of church crowd is a digital Church an online Church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life we are a community a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow and you are welcome at crowd Church be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from because we've got some great stories lined up and I do not want you to miss any of them and in case no one has told you yet today dear listener viewer you are awesome yes you are it's just a burden you have to bear Beth has to Bear it I have to bear it we're just awesome it's a way God made us fearfully and wonderfully made now what's the story is produced by crowd online church you can find our entire Archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app the team that makes this show possible is Sarah Bane on Josh catchpaul as Stella Robin and Tim Johnson our theme song was written by the amazingly talented Josh Edmondson and if you would like to read the transcript or show notes as I said head over to www.crowd.church where you can also sign up for our Weekly Newsletter and get all of this good stuff direct your inbox totally for free that's it from me that's it from Beth thank you so much for joining us have a fantastic week bye for now