Betrayal and abandonment leave wounds that run deep. We explore what it looks like to face those experiences honestly, how they shape us, and whether it is possible to rebuild trust after someone you relied on walks away.
01The Saddest Thing About Betrayal
There is a line in this talk that lands with a kind of quiet devastation: "The saddest thing about betrayal is that it never comes from your enemies."
Everyone knows this, of course. Films, television, literature, all of it circles back to the same theme. Scar and Mufasa. Cipher and the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. Shakespeare built entire plays around it. King Lear. Hamlet. Othello. The violation of trust from the people closest to us is one of the oldest stories in the world.
But knowing it intellectually and experiencing it personally are two entirely different things.
02A Kiss in the Garden
In Mark chapter 14, Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss. Not a stranger. Not an enemy. One of his own twelve disciples, someone who had travelled with him, eaten with him, listened to his teaching for three years. Judas had arranged a signal with the armed crowd: "The one I kiss is the man. Arrest him."
And then, after the arrest, something arguably worse happens. "Everyone deserted him and fled." All of them. Every single disciple who had sworn loyalty, who had promised to stand with Jesus even to death, ran.
Jesus experienced both betrayal and abandonment in the space of a few minutes. From the people he had invested in most deeply.
03When a Parent Walks Away
The speaker shared her own story of abandonment with a directness that was clearly hard-won.
"When I was three, my parents got divorced. I lived with my amazing mum and my brother. I saw my dad maybe once a year until I was about ten, and then he moved abroad. I never got any letters or telephone calls. The last time I saw him was at my grandma's funeral, probably about ten years ago."
"To be abandoned by a parent, someone that is supposed to love you unconditionally but could not seem to care less, is difficult to live with."
As a teenager, she went to the cinema to see Father of the Bride, the Steve Martin film about a dad struggling to let go of his daughter at her wedding. "I came out thinking, I will never have that." The comedy was about a father's overwhelming love. Watching it highlighted an absence.
That absence had consequences that went beyond childhood. "My relationship, or lack of it, with my birth dad has made it really hard for me to understand the love of God the Father. Because I am comparing him to my earthly father. And that could not be further from the truth."
This is one of the less discussed effects of abandonment. It does not just damage the relationship with the person who left. It can distort the way someone sees God, making it harder to trust a heavenly Father when the earthly one walked away.
04Jesus Understands, and That Matters
The connection between the biblical story and personal experience was drawn without sentimentality. Jesus knows what betrayal feels like. He knows what abandonment feels like. Not theoretically. Personally.
"The very people that he had devoted his life to, the very people who only a few hours before had sworn to stick with him even to death, those people betrayed him, abandoned him at the time he needed them the most. They were not there in the darkest hour."
"Jesus understands how it feels for you. He knows it deeply and personally."
This matters because one of the loneliest aspects of betrayal is the feeling that nobody could possibly understand. The specifics of each person's experience feel unique, and they are. But the core of it, the violation of trust by someone who was supposed to be safe, is something Jesus experienced firsthand.
05The Hardest Word
The talk then moved to the part that nobody wants to hear. How did Jesus respond to being betrayed and abandoned?
He forgave.
"He does not do what I would want to do. He does not seek revenge. He does not want to get his own back on them. He does not walk away from the people that walked away from him. No. He simply forgives."
And then, immediately: "I say simply, but we all know that forgiveness is anything but simple. It is incredibly hard."
There was no pretence that forgiveness is a one-time decision that fixes everything. It was described as a process, often lifelong, that has to be a daily choice. "Sometimes through gritted teeth." That honesty is important. Forgiveness that is presented as easy is not forgiveness at all. It is denial wearing a religious mask.
"It does not make the consequences of betrayal disappear. But it is for you. Forgiveness is for you as much as for that person that has betrayed you. You might be gripped by bitterness and hate and anger, which will eat you up. Forgiveness destroys that. It does not condone what the person has done to you. But it will begin to set you free."
06Redemption Does Not Always Look Like Hollywood
The speaker was honest about what redemption looked like in her own story. There was no dramatic reunion with her father. No tearful reconciliation. No Hollywood ending.
"I have not had the father-daughter reunion where he has begged my forgiveness and wants to be part of my life. And that is fine."
Instead, redemption came in a different form. "The redemption in my story, I believe, is my amazing husband James. He is the most amazing father to our two girls. He has been that constant, trustworthy figure in my life for nearly thirty years."
"God has seen to it that my girls have not had to face what I have had to face. He has redeemed our story. History has not repeated itself."
That is a different kind of happy ending. Not the restoration of the original relationship, but the creation of something new. The cycle broken. The pattern changed. The next generation freed from what the previous one carried.
07Hannah's Story
A short testimony was shared from a woman called Hannah, who had also experienced betrayal. Before knowing Jesus, her response was to push everyone away. Trust felt impossible. Relationships were unstable.
After encountering God, something shifted. Not instantly. Not easily. But gradually.
"It does get better. And God knows your heart more than anyone. And he has got a path for you. And he will always be with you on your path."
08The Difference Between Peter and Judas
The talk closed with a comparison that cuts to the heart of the matter. Both Peter and Judas betrayed Jesus. Peter denied knowing him three times. Judas handed him over with a kiss. Both regretted what they had done.
The difference was not in the regret. It was in the response.
"Peter instantly regretted his actions and repented. He asked forgiveness. He said he was sorry. He showed he was sorry. He became someone who spoke about Jesus everywhere he went, even when his own life was in danger."
Judas regretted what he had done but, as far as the biblical account tells us, that was all he did. He did not go back to Jesus. He could not carry the guilt.
"The difference between Judas and Peter was not regret. They both realised they had messed up massively. It was that Peter got on his knees and went back to Jesus. Judas did not."
For anyone who has been the betrayer rather than the betrayed, there is a path back. It involves more than feeling bad. It involves seeking forgiveness, changing course, and trusting that restoration is possible. "Just as there was redemption for Peter, there is for you too."
09Something to Sit With
Betrayal and abandonment are not easy topics. They touch wounds that many people have spent years trying to manage, to bury, to move past. This talk did not offer a quick fix. It offered something more honest: the recognition that Jesus has been there too, that forgiveness is hard but freeing, and that redemption does not always come in the shape you expected.
Is there someone you need to forgive, even through gritted teeth, to begin setting yourself free?
Topics in this talk
View Full Transcript
uh do you so oh me my well good afternoon and welcome to crowd church sal how are you doing i'm doing really good today matt thank you how are you doing yeah good the grand prix has started uh it's grand prix so i'm in i'm in a good mood right now i appreciate it but yeah for me it's good yeah i'm so happy to be here listen do me a favor write in the comments if you like the grand prix just put yay f1 or something so we know that your program pre and if you're not if you're not then don't comment we don't i don't want to know uh is it just me that likes it i just i'm curious to know that um but yeah i think it's a pretty popular sport i just have to say it's one that i've never particularly been a fan of no no never mind anyway we're not here to talk about f1 if you're just tuning in and you're new to crowd church we're not an f1 chat show uh we are in fact an online church so it's good that you're with us yeah we're here for you maybe you don't see the point of church yeah absolutely absolutely so if you're new to crowd church just so you know we are an online church and uh we're just here for those that might not see the point of church maybe for those that are new to the whole church faith or if you've been around christianity for a number of years like my good self then feel welcome you're you're you're more than welcome to spend the next probably about 45 minutes to an hour with us here this sunday afternoon uh as we get into a whole host of things and in fact we have a really great speaker today sal don't we are really great matt who's struggling with that or is that actually a comment if if sally is echoing uh and it's other than just matt can you please let us know because she's not echoing in my ears anymore we did have a problem anymore yeah we did have a problem with it earlier on and we kind of thought we'd solved it um but matt's great to see you trev uh hi ed mondo sally from tame earth not devon and crewmeister thanks trev uh it's gonna take me a little while to decide for all of that but um thank you very much uh and here they are beloved glamorous co-host sally butch apparently you're glamorous so wow that's the earrings yeah and it says here not chunky matt edmondson thanks tell you what uh trev jack in georgia say hello from lox heath uh hey jackie hey georgia um and yeah gemma says you're echoing again wow i tell you what this could be a first i wonder if this is actually a power play by me uh to to tone down the birch i don't exactly know what's going on um i genuinely don't know why she's echoing uh so i'm going to try and resolve that um in the non-two-distant future probably while you're doing your talk sound okay brilliant hopefully you don't echo in the talk do the what's that number oh the what's up there we go yeah yeah whatsapp number so uh otherwise i think so you just tell me what to do and then i'll just talk in the middle uh so the whatsapp number uh if you are watching the livestream uh and or you're watching the catch-up videos on youtube or facebook and if you would like any prayer then we would love to pray for you uh we believe that somehow and in god's amazing plan he his is when we pray and so we love to praise people and pray that god will help you and uh help you move on in life a little bit so whatever the need is whatever's going on if you would like prayer do let us know you can of course comment in the comments like a few people have started doing already uh either on facebook or youtube and we will an endeavor to get to your comments at some point uh let me tell you what's going to go on this morning uh we are going to very shortly we are live we are live honestly uh it's it's the hour the the changing of the clocks i don't know it just messes my whole day up um and so yeah it is this afternoon so this afternoon we have got the best speaker we've ever had at crowd church uh who is going to be talking to us um without an echo and then after that we're going to have a little time of worship then hopefully after that sul and i are going to have a little discussion about the talk and your questions as well because hopefully we've resolved by them uh some of the echoes that are happening in the meantime i really hope we can resolve it because it's like torture not me comment on what you're saying actually i'm quite liking this i genuinely i think it's quite fun uh so we'll see what's going to happen maybe uh try and put some headphones in sell maybe that's going to solve our problem let's try that one first uh matt's put here it's because sally birch sonic booms along in car at the speed of sound i've no idea what that means so i have no idea what that is at all it's all to do with this thing from from first to what i did about justice never gonna live that one do you talk about speeding in this talk that's coming up no no i don't okay fair enough fair enough hey antoine hey how you doing hope you and priscilla are doing well uh trevor burch says that we're now on youtube oh excellent so we've moved over to youtube and tell me trevor is sally echoing on youtube or is it just a facebook phenomenon uh jim and my kids are non-stop talking to me miss loads uh sal it's time matty got you a good setup yes [Laughter] oh bless you thanks gemma uh when we want your opinion we'll ask you never mind yeah what's that what's that the number okay now uh let me just tell you again if you're new if you're new to the live stream what's going to happen uh we are just about going to start the talk so sal is going to talk for about 15 minutes or so then we're gonna have a time of worship uh and just sort of reflection and then after that we're going to hopefully have maybe a bit more of a two-way conversation rather than so sitting there looking uncomfortable not being able to say anything yeah it's gonna be fun okay so without further ado here is sally's talk let me take that number off the screen there we go uh we'll be back in just a few short minutes hey so we have been working our way through mark's gospel which is one of the books in the bible that chronicles the life of jesus now his story over recent weeks hasn't been that straightforward they haven't been easy topics to discuss and i'm afraid today is no exception we're going to look at the topic of betrayal and abandonment you know that super easy light topic to chat about on a sunday afternoon that's the one but you know what the bible tackles the painful issues of life head-on and the teaching examples of jesus are as real for us today betrayal and abandonment is something that many of us have faced in our lives it's a theme that runs through the film and television programs we watch the books we read um think of scar in the lion king or cipher in the matrix think of most drama series that you watch on netflix and somewhere in there there will be a storyline about betrayal even going back to shakespeare king lear hamlet othello the theme that runs through them is betrayal that violation of trust from the people closest to us is a theme that's all around us and its effects can be devastating and can change your life forever leave you bitter and angry but it doesn't have to be that way there is hope now there isn't a magic wand to fix those feelings that you're left with when you've experienced betrayal but i do believe that god can heal our hearts so let's look at how jesus dealt with it and what the bible has to say about it the first is that we're looking at the next section of mark chapter 14 verses 43 to 50. just as he was speaking judas one of the twelve appeared with him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs sent from the chief priests the teachers of the law and the elders now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them the one i kiss is the man arrest him and lead him away under guard going at once to jesus judah said rabbi and kissed him the men seized jesus and arrested him then one of those standing near drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest cutting off his ear am i leading a rebellion said jesus that you've come to capture me every day i was with you teaching in the temple court and you did not arrest me but the scriptures must be fulfilled then everyone deserted him and fled wow first jesus is betrayed and then everyone deserted him and fled all his closest friends that had been with him the past few years and promised to never leave him those friends deserted him and fled judas one of his own disciples betrayed him with a kiss knowing this would send jesus to his death if the definition of betrayal is a violation of trust i think it's safe to say that jesus knew how it feels to be betrayed and abandoned the saddest thing about betrayal is that it never comes from your enemies david who was one of the old kings in the bible and became infamous for killing the giant goliath wrote many of the psalms that we find in the old testament now he knew about betrayal his title his position his fame that didn't exclude him from being betrayed now the message translation of psalm 55 which he wrote verses 12 to 14 says this isn't the neighborhood bully mocking me i could take that this isn't an unknown devil spouting invective i could tune that out it's you we grew up together you my best friend it comes from those closest to us and that's why its effects are so big and so difficult to recover from i've dealt with betrayal and abandonment in my own life um when i was three my parents got divorced and i lived with my amazing mom and my brother and i saw my dad maybe once a year until i was about 10 and then he moved abroad so i hardly saw him after that i never got any letters or telephone calls and the last time i saw him was at my grandma's funeral probably about 10 years ago to be abandoned by a parent someone that's supposed to love you unconditionally but couldn't seem to care less is difficult to live with as a teenager i was very bitter about it i remember going to the cinema to see the film father of the bride remember that one that'll age me and then i came out sort of thinking you know i'll never have that the movie was about father getting used to the idea that his beloved daughter was getting married and he didn't want to let go of her and so there are scenes of him trying to sabotage the wedding it's definitely one of steve martin's best and it's a brilliant comedy but at the heart it's about a father's overwhelming love for his daughter and watching it made me very aware that i didn't have that now my mum did marry again when i was in my late teens and i was fortunate enough to build a really good relationship with my stepdad who actually gave me away at my wedding but in spite of that my relationship or lack of it with my birth dad has made it really hard for me to understand the love of god the father because i'm comparing him to my earthly father and that couldn't be further from the truth it shaped my life in a lot of ways but the real and valuable lesson that i've learned in this and here's the hope if you've been abandoned or if you've been betrayed the truth is that jesus understands how i feel how you feel because he has experienced the same thing the very people that he had devoted his life to the very people who'd only a few hours sworn to stick with him even to death those people betrayed him abandoned him at the time he needed them the most they weren't there in the darkest hour for jesus they fled all the support he'd given them over the last three years it meant absolutely nothing in this point jesus understands how it feels for you he knows it deeply and personally dealing with these feelings of betrayal is so difficult though it takes time sometimes years but you can ask for help god wants to help you and meet you where you are you can reach out to him you can ask for his help and he will offer you the comfort and the strength that you need so how does jesus deal with being betrayed and abandoned he forgives whoa hang on a minute he forgives he doesn't do what i would want to do he doesn't seek revenge he doesn't want to get his own back on them he doesn't walk away from the people that walked away from him no he simply forgives i say simply but we all know that forgiveness is anything but simple it's a really difficult thing to do incredibly hard i found this in my own story with my dad it's a process often a lifelong process that has to be a daily decision a choice sometimes through gritted teeth but why why would jesus do this why should i do this this isn't the way the rest of the world deals with betrayal and abandonment but forgiveness is god's nature his whole story is about forgiveness and forgiveness that leads to complete restoration it doesn't make and hear me here it doesn't make the consequences of betrayal disappear but it's for you forgiveness is for you as much as for that person that's betrayed you you might be gripped by bitterness and hate and anger which will eat you up forgiveness destroys that it doesn't condone what the person has done to you but it will begin to set you free out of forgiveness comes redemption now i haven't had the father daughter of union where he's begged my forgiveness wants to be part of my life the hollywood ending and that's fine because the redemption in my story i believe is my amazing husband james now he's the most amazing father to our two girls keoni and willa and he's been that constant trustworthy figure in my life for nearly 30 years yes nearly 30 years god has seen to it that my girls haven't had to face what i've had to face he's redeemed our story history has not repeated itself and when we follow god's way there is redemption so i thought it would be good to hear how someone else has dealt with betrayal in their life so here's hannah's story how has affected you in your life so it's me trusting people very hard and it made me very closed off from others how did you deal with it before you knew jesus as i was saying like relationships were very hard to be stable and i just pushed everyone away from around me because i didn't think that i could trust them and how do you deal with it now now that i have a relationship with god and always doing the most amazing thing in my life by teaching me grace and patience to an extent by tearing something back and what advice would you give someone who feels betrayed and struggling right now that it does get better and god knows your heart more than anyone and he's got a path for you and he'll always be with you on your path thank you so much hannah for sharing your story that can't have been easy so let's look at the other side of betrayal now what if you're the betrayer how do you deal with that well if we look at peter whose story we heard a couple of weeks ago and judas they had both betrayed jesus peter abandoned jesus at the worst time even though he promised he wouldn't and as we've seen judas betrayed jesus in the worst possible way with a kiss the difference though between peter and is their response to what they had done peter instantly regretted his actions and repented that means he asked forgiveness he said he was sorry he showed he was sorry he became someone who spoke about jesus everywhere he went even when his own life was in danger up to the point where he was crucified by the romans for being a follower of jesus he never denied jesus again peter and jesus were restored but judas on the other hand he regretted what he had done but as far as we know that's all he did and his life ended tragically short under that insane level of guilt that he must have faced the difference between judas and peter was not regret they both realized they'd messed up massively it was that peter got on his knees and went back to jesus judas didn't and he couldn't carry the guilt so if you've betrayed someone what should you do well we have to move beyond regret we have to seek god's forgiveness we have to change our ways and invite him to help us to live differently we need to restore our relationship with god and we also need to ask forgiveness from the person that we've abandoned or betrayed that's the next step sadly this doesn't change many of the consequences of betrayal and we have to live with the fact that we've hurt people sometimes the people we love the most but there is redemption just as there was for peter there is for you too i hope that you find the hope in that today that if you've been betrayed or abandoned you can go to god and he is there for you wow thanks so hey listen not easy stuff to talk about eh not easy stuff to share uh but stuff we definitely need to talk about and and definitely share so i appreciate your honesty there selling your vulnerability and your story and your wisdom and your insight and we're gonna get into that into a little bit more after the worship and reflection time so if you have any thoughts any questions any comments uh do write them in as we're gonna come to that in just a little minute uh in the meantime i'm gonna put on a track a worship track uh and this is the time of the service where we kind of have a little bit of um worship and reflection so if you're not used to the worship aspect if you're not used to that whole side of things then just listen along just listen to the words let the words wash over you and just think about maybe some of the stuff that sal has talked about and shared and see how that impacts you and and and mull that on over as we're going to get ready to talk about that in a few minutes uh if you are a christian and you do enjoy worship and it is safe to do so uh then obviously join in uh with the this time of worship now as we get into uh just singing about the goodness of god which is well it's an appropriate response isn't it after a conversation uh like that so uh i'll be back in just a few minutes time here we go before i spoke a word you were singing over me you have been so so good to me before i took a breath you breathed your life in me you have been so so kind to me oh the overwhelming never-ending reckless love of god it chases me down fights till i'm found leaves the 99 i couldn't earn it i don't deserve it still you give yourself away never-ending reckless love of god when i was your foe steal your love for when i felt no worth you paid it all for me oh the overwhelming never-ending reckless love oh it chases me down fights till i'm found leaves the 99 oh the overwhelming never ending of god there's no shadow you won't light up mountain you won't climb up coming after me there's no wall you won't kick down lie you won't tear down coming mountain you won't climb up coming after lie you won't tear down coming after me there's no shadow you won't light up a mountain you won't climb up come it the snow wall you won't kick reckless well there we go oh i can hear you now is that echoing yes no it's not echoing anymore can you hear me uh i can i can everybody else is it okay am i not echoing can you hear me okay let's find out can everyone is that working well for everybody let us know in the comments in the comments that will be great brilliant hopefully yes hopefully that'll all be okay well i can cope with listening to me as long as no one else can hear me twice that's amazing yeah we definitely don't want that definitely not i wouldn't wish that on anybody bless right but i'm not let me change that is that better oh no yeah you're madly echoing no more and now i'm echoing oh wow it's a rave now wow wow sorry everyone what is going on i'm not sure what's going on i feel like i'm echoing now oh dear it looks like you can have one of us at a time not echoing but not both okay okay so uh what i think i'm gonna do is turn that on uh sal i'm sorry you're gonna disconnect you're gonna have to reconnect okay let's see if this solves a problem okay so while sally is disconnecting uh hopefully that has now solved the echo for me i am not sure at all what is going on uh so sal hopefully will be uh joining us again oh here we go let me just bring cell in uh this is why we do stuff live right because you know why not it makes things worse makes things worse makes things real sal are you there i am here phew and you've stopped echoing in my ears so hopefully uh you're not echoing and i'm not echoing anymore oh dear sorry about everybody it is live it is organic is the one that demo used i love that organic and you know what it's um gemma says it's all fine which is just peachy thank you jesus so um so yes sorry about that everybody and uh matt crew called it the rave church well that's what i said it was like a rave so in fact i'd like to go back to yeah you never know right you never know so i'm sorry about that especially after such an interesting conversa an interesting topic uh yeah and uh that whole conversation cell how did you find that i mean preparing that talk could not have been easy right no it wasn't it was a really tricky one um i was nervous about going out to be honest yeah so shall i try my headphones now james support me is really attractive headphones could just be one big stitcher good baby oh wow check these check it out check it out that's awesome can you still hear me all right i can hear you're too loud in my ears i need to turn you right down yeah yeah you definitely don't want that too loud okay so is this echoing yeah let us know in the comments i appreciate there's like a 20 second delay between when we say something and when it's out so hopefully that's gonna maybe help us a little bit okay um oh gemma says it's much better who do we believe faye or gemma oh no let's let them fight it out just let it fight it maybe it's the liverpool echo echo oh very funny yeah sorry um so um really you just keep your answers short and sweet that's all i can say i genuinely have no idea why he's doing this um but you know feel free to dance more i don't know maybe that would help you okay that's changing in the background are you going to unplug them wow this is really good well he's telling me to slow down that's gonna be the answer okay so maybe maybe sal keep your answers short and sweet and i'll maybe fill in the blanks um and maybe yeah just do sign language maybe let's just try that to do charades oh deary me so um you were saying that it was quite tricky for you to prepare this talk i mean i know we talked about it beforehand um and the the depth of which you kind of shared about your dad i thought was extraordinary and that's obviously that's quite a tricky thing to share um can i ask you maybe some yes or no questions and maybe that's going to help us um do you feel like um the relationship with your dad do you feel like you are in a place of forgiveness where that's concerned most of the time okay uh and so when you're when you're when you're struggling with that you say most of the time there's obviously times when you do struggle with that um what what do you do i ask for help if you know the first thing is to want to forgive you're not even at that point in goodness you just want to be able so i no no and it's it's an interesting statement to make about about forgiveness that actually forgiveness is a decision it's not based on a feeling um it's not based on an emotion it's not based on logic sometimes either but it is totally a decision that you have to make and it's a daily decision something that you have to constantly work through um yeah one thing i was really keen to come across is i wasn't saying this is an easy and that's a really really important point um that it's it's not easy it is a decision uh but it will bring you freedom do you again a yes or no answer is that what you found with your dad and the way you are with your debt yeah yeah so when you talk about it bringing you freedom what kind of freedom has it brought you freedom from the negative meanings those sorts of things um it's really helped out anger and greatness is um it might feel good in that moment but actually you can't live life yeah no it's very very true and um so if i just i can't use the phrase if i can just echo back uh what you just said uh that's not going to help um um but uh it's interesting listening to you talk about it and listening to you talking the video that actually it brings you this freedom from um from the anger from the bitterness it kind of it stops you feeling that and i remember so we when we were talking about this talk before you recorded the talk um you mentioned an occasion i think where you went uh you're having a conversation with jen harding who's one of the founding pastors of frontline church that sal and i have been a member of since well noah was around basically um and you you talked about how uh forgiveness um when you've you know when you're in a place of forgiveness you you're in a place where actually you you can find yourself wanting the best for the person that you've forgiven do you think that's a good litmus test i think it's a really difficult one let's go in the next level isn't it um no it's one kind if you can say that yeah and it's interesting isn't it how you know one of the most famous pieces of the bible talks about the lord's prayer you know a lot of people around the world will know the lord's prayer father white in heaven if you like the king james version hallowed be your name and so on and so forth and it's it talks about this particular part forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us or forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us and um there's a wonderful talk sharon did a few months ago if you want to dig deep dive into forgiveness a bit more um where she talks about the parable of the unforgiving servant the servant who refused to forgive even though they've been forgiven much and actually this whole forgiveness is a really unique christian idea that is incredibly difficult to do but it is one of those things that seems to be like a a requirement to wrong word it's one of those things i think god expects from um to forgive because he forgave us and it's and when we sit there and we're kind of like you know what forgiveness is difficult god i find it very hard to forgive this person i can think of a few occasions in my life where i've where i've had to work very hard um to make the decision to forgive and i i can find myself going to god we are definitely going to have to grapple with this whole idea of forgiveness now one of the things you said sal which um i absolutely loved was the area where you felt um god had redeemed the story for you with james being a dad to your kids um i i absolutely loved that and i thought that was brilliant and is that what you think is that what you you see in a day-to-day basis yeah i think looking a bit like the fact that my children don't have to never have to experience those awful things in life um this match that they have the most amazing is just such a blessing to me and i would 100 times more than that for them than to have my own relationship with my dad yeah and so that's the yeah that's absolutely yes it's a long time a long old time in fact as we were listening to that song it reminded me of the joke that james uh talks when he hears that song and i might explain to you why being with so how do we know jesus ice cream how do we know that jesus hates ice cream okay i've had hang on i don't know i don't know sal how do we know that jesus hates ice cream because he leaves the 99. oh oh that's so bad i mean that's like that's like one of your christmas jokes uh yeah yeah okay for those of you who are outside the uk let me explain to you what that means there's a there's an ice cream called the 99 in the uk and it's basically an ice cream with a bit of chocolate in it um and so i mean if i was being really pedantic surely the joke would be how do we know that jesus doesn't like flakes because it's the flakes that's the 99 bit right i just thought it's not as funny no i'm just being pedantic sorry about that um and you know what whilst that's not funny and i appreciate this is quite a tricky conversation to have with a with a with a sally birch who is um feeling quite s stuck in what she can say and how she wants to talk it's for the first time in a long time so you've looked quite uncomfortable on the camera oh sorry i just no no no no no this topic is so important and close to my heart i wish yeah i think we're definitely gonna actually have to do this another time because now i'm starting to echo apparently so matt crew here says i've got a question how do you cope when someone you thought had forgiven you then turns round and goes back on their words of forgiveness then they continue their tirades and lines in the community and go to mission destroy your good name okay um that i wanted to um address that as well type that in too many maps yeah sorry um i would say you have clearly asked for forgiveness you can't change their behavior you can't change or change you know what they're doing and so you just have such questions you've done the right thing and that those people that know you will not believe what that person is saying you know we all make mistakes we have to ask forgiveness and we have to hope and give us chance again yeah it's very good sal very good and i think it's totally right i think you can't it's interesting you can't make somebody forgive you you just can't um the only the only time really that you can guarantee forgiveness is when you go to god and ask for it i'm pretty convinced that you know any time we ask forgiveness from god there is forgiveness for us right that's the story of the gospel that's what we that's what we like you can't make anyone else forgive you um but it becomes their choice okay and uh and that's the problem and it's a tricky one because actually you if you are the topic of like let's say i've done something wrong which is you know most of the time really and i end up having to go to sharon or whoever said i'm terribly sorry and i i can hope that they forgive me um but if they don't it's actually very difficult for me to then say oh you need to forgive me because that well that's just a bit weird maybe one of their friends can talk to them about it maybe god could talk to them about it directly but it becomes very odd if i try and force them to forgive me uh if that makes sense so um i kind of have to do that thing where you just go you know what god i you tell me if i need to do anything else here um but i've i i'm just gonna walk in forgiveness myself and and not find myself getting angry or bitter uh towards that person um if that makes sense so yeah i think it's a great question i think it's a really interesting question um gemma's put here uh humans make mistakes you can't change behavior you just need to change your response i guess i guess it's probably a good way to answer that gemma absolutely you can't change um you can't change other people's behavior i think that this is a fundamental thing once you've been married for a little while you realize this right sharon's been trying for a while trying to get my behavior better um my behavior is down to me um and so then how i respond to that is is quite a it's down to me and jeremy i think that's a very good point okay claire's in the comments watching about half an hour behind well uh okay uh half an hour ago good to see you claire great that you're here uh make sense your answers thanks good glad that helped matt um and uh yeah i like i say it's a tricky topic so uh sharon talked about this a few months ago and it's definitely worth getting into it more we are going to definitely talk a lot more about forgiveness and so when we have the echoless feature going on i definitely want to talk to you some more about your um your prep for this talk and what you found about it because i think there's a lot of questions people have about it um but fundamentally uh i just want to say a big massive thank you i really appreciate you doing that and taking the time to do that and i'm sorry you've been a bit stifled in the discussion no problem i was going to say something embarrassing today it's probably not a bad thing can i tell them what we said before we went on air about darts because this is this is just the conversation that sal and i have beforehand so i'm like uh ordinarily you know in the discussion time several things happen if you're new right several things will happen is normally uh sal will make fun of me uh and occasionally sal will say something that maybe doesn't reflect on her that well and so we always laugh and joke about this uh and that's just part of what gives us the magic uh in crowd that we have i suppose make yourself such a wonderful person um and before we came live on air i just said to sal i said i'm really stoked like i said at the start you know i'm really stoked that the f1 season has started again because i really like the f1 and sal says what was it you said i think it's the most pointless sport on the planet and i said to sell back i said what about dots isn't darts the most pointless sport on the planet to which style replied go on sal even with the echo you've got this is your moment to shine i said about um darts formula one that well-known safety sport uh that's what to do um if you're looking for the safe in life don't try darts though ah such as the humor and laughter that we have on quite a regular basis oh i'm working with yourself you're an absolute legend and i i i i'm part of miss tempted just to milk this the fact that you're quite stifled in talking right now time is love it love this job right uh so once again apologies for the echo i genuinely have no idea why it's doing that i did a live stream using the same setup on thursday everything was fine so we will get into this uh we'll get to the bottom of it and figure it out before next thursday next thursday next sunday uh speaking of next sunday it is easter that's right it's easter weekend next nixon doing we've got a great uh easter lineup plan we've got a great easter service so do come along join us for the easter service uh invite your friends along come do a watch party and all those kind of things as we get celebrate what is perhaps the most exciting day in the christian calendar i always get excited about easter not just because of the chocolate i hasten to add although that is a big part cheat day easter sunday let me tell you the diet goes out of the window um but because we do celebrate the resurrection of christ and so we're going to get into that we're going to look at a beautiful story uh from matthew's gospel about mary and mary yes we are we're gonna get into what happens when they go to the tomb and find that it's empty and there's an angel there and all kinds of good stuff so we're gonna get into that which is gonna be great so you do wanna come join us we're gonna get into questions about easter questions like is easter a pagan holiday and therefore should christians celebrate it uh you know deep meaningful questions all kinds of good stuff uh like like where does easter come from and what's a resurrection all about oh we're gonna get into that uh i'm genuinely really excited for next week uh we're gonna have such a great time with the easter service so sally you're gonna be back next week yeah i'll be there hopefully not echoing we'll just have one of you next week is that all right good yeah that'd be good for every other one yeah okay bruce so yeah do come join us next week for easter oh here i am we've not done ketchup i'm getting carried away let's do the catch-up video now and then sal and i'll be back after this to close out the service so here's catch up courtesy of josh edmondson hello and welcome to this week's sunday catch up for those of you who don't know me allow me to introduce myself my name is josh edmondson i'm a member of the team here at crowd church and i'm a student studying physics at the university of saint andrews if you have never watched the stream before welcome it's great to have you here let me quickly explain what catch up actually is catch up is the part of the stream where we get pictures and videos sent in by members of the community that we put up everyone to see just so that we get a feel for how everyone is getting on in usual fashion i will kick off with something that i've been up to this week for me this was my first week of easter break i spent most of this week reading i recently got into the wheel of time series spent the whole week pretty much reading this book i don't know if you have that kind of one thing that you you don't allow yourself to do if you need to focus because you know it's just a rabbit hole that you will not come out from for me it's it's novels i really i just get properly sucked in so it was nice to actually have some time to do that this week anyway that's enough from me let's get on to the catch-up clips great thank you so much for sending those in it's always great to see what everyone is getting up to i love watching the catch-up clips we love watching the catch-up clips so please please please if you want to have your stuff on catch up send it in to the church whatsapp number that you will have seen on the bottom of the screen or you can use hashtag crowdcatchup on instagram and i will be able to find your post and put it on catch up for you that's all from me this week thank you very much for watching and i will catch you next time i think that was anna grace farrington's creation i definitely want some of that i definitely want some of that i'm just going to go through some of the comments here gemma orange says josh said it's weird seeing sal not talking i love it well done josh that my friend earns comment of the week uh matt cruz safety sport hilarious sally birch you're not going to live that one down a little while thanks for doing your job matt edmondson of embarrassing embarrassing sally mission complete yes it's funny how the uh how it's been switched around i'm quite enjoying this one uh antoine's put here must be dangerous to play darts with sally then oh my goodness so james has put antoine any sport with cell is dangerous wow okay so swiftly moving on uh there's gonna be conversations in the birch house after this live stream that's all i'm saying so uh swiftly that's brilliant oh so do you feel a little bit picked on a little bit today i'm gonna have to get my own back next hey listen uh thanks everyone for joining in do come back and join us next week uh it's gonna be like say our easter service we're going to close out the service with someone james has put here it's just stuff out for a walk oh that's great love this love this live stream um so yeah did come back join us next week i am going to play some uh i'm going to put on another worship tracks to close out the service but from me and sal that will be it for today uh sell any clothes and comments from just thanks everyone for sticking with us sorry about the technical problems and we'll hopefully have that sorted out thank you so much for joining us absolutely bless you have a great uh rest of your day go watch the end of the grand prix and sell and i will see you next week bye for now all creatures of our garden key lift up your voice and with a sin o praise him hallelujah thou burning sun with golden beam thou silver moon with softer gleep o praise him hallelujah thou rushing winded out so strong ye clouds that sail in heaven along rejoice the lights of even find a voice oh praise him let all things there create a bless and worship him in humbleness praise praise the father praise the son and praise the spirit three in one
