Stop Waiting to Be Someone Important

Matt Edmundson: Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt Edmundson and it is great to be with you this Sunday evening. I am joined by— how would I describe you, Dan? It's like, uh, Liverpool's answer to Batman. Uh, beside me is Dan Orange, which is being filmed as we speak. Well, I know they're waiting on you to get back.

Dan Orange: I know, yeah. It's being filmed on the Runcorn Bridge just down the road. Oh, there you go. Yeah, snow and everything, Batman. Snow? Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: In the middle of summer?

Dan Orange: Yeah, they've got fake snow on the Runcorn Bridge.

Mike Harris: Wow.

Matt Edmundson: I'm going to go down and have a look. Anyway, and on my right, we've got Liverpool's answer to Superman, Mike Harris. How are we doing?

Mike Harris: I'm doing really well.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Yeah, really. Looking forward to it.

Matt Edmundson: Did you forget your cape?

Mike Harris: Yes. Yeah, I would say I'm more like Robin.

Matt Edmundson: Robin.

Mike Harris: The leotard and goggles.

Matt Edmundson: So let us know in the comments what superhero you think you are. That would be really good. Alicia's in the comments. Hey, good to see you. Hello. Oh, yeah. Um, good to see you in there, but do say hi in the comments if you haven't done so already. I'm just writing the YouTube comments to say hi, let us know where you're watching from, um, and it'll be great to interact with you on this live stream. Yes, it would. So let me run down my little checklist. I think I've done the welcome, uh, and the intro, um, uh, invite to comment. Yes, I've done that. So, uh, just let you know that Crowd is an online church. You are welcome here, it's great to have you. Um, we are a Christian church. Uh, we've been doing the live streaming thing. If you're new to Crowd, by the way, we've been doing it for, I don't know, a good while. A little while, yeah. I don't think— since COVID um, we, we came online in COVID. And it's, it's a little bit different to a normal church, in-person church. It's a lot more interactive. And so you can join in in the comments, you can ask your questions, uh, we will try our best to answer them as we go through. Um, Mike's going to bring the talk, we're going to chat about the talk in something called Conversation Street. Um, so it's kind of— it is church, it's just a little bit different. Um, at the end of the service we've got live lounge, so we invite you to come join us on Google Meet, um, which Zoe will put the link in the comments for. Uh, just you just press the button on the thingy, so the Stream Deck, as she figures out the technology. There we go. Uh, so yeah, there's the comment, uh, www— no, go.crowd.church/meet. Giving you the wrong web address. The website is crowd.church if you want to find out anything about Crowd Church. We have a brand new website. Thank you so much, everybody, by the way, who have been, uh, dialing in and telling me where all the mistakes are in the website. That's been very, very helpful. We have fixed quite a few of them, um, so do keep those coming in. Uh, I, I would genuinely love to know where the mistakes are. Um, so yeah, uh, Crowd Church, you can find out all information about the church there. The Alpha courses we run, we've just set new dates up for a new Alpha course, which I think is the 9th of September. Um, so if you'd like to register for that Alpha course, registration's now open. Alpha, for those of you don't know, is basically an introduction to Christianity. So a lot of people who are sort of searching, um, for answers, big life answers, and they're sort of curious about Christianity do Alpha. You don't have to be a Christian to do it, and most people aren't. Or if you're early in your Christian faith and you want to know some of the answers to the Christian, uh, story, then come and try Alpha. Uh, and like I say, the registration is available on the website. You can head to that and see all of those. So I think, uh, that's all of the notes. Well, actually, that's not all the notices, but I'm not going to bore you with the rest of them. We've got some really exciting stuff actually with Crowd coming up, so some big changes, um, which we're going to talk about probably— well, I don't know when we're gonna know because I'm just thinking actually in August, which this is the last, uh, one in July, the last livestream in August. So we don't livestream in August, the Sunday's, uh, Sunday's service. We do something called the non-live livestream. And so that's where we, we still like do a, a thing on YouTube with the talk there's just none of this sort of interaction that we have, this sort of live interaction, mainly because the whole Crowd team here, we just take August as a bit of a sabbatical and just refresh ourselves because there's a lot going on. Um, and so yeah, I'm not quite sure I'm going to talk about what's going on with Crowd Church. Maybe we'll do it later after the talk. We'll wait and see, uh, how it's happening. So let me put my specs on. Let's have a look at what's going on in the comments. Uh, Matt Crew, as the proofreader for the website, I saw no mistakes. That's really Hey, nice work. I don't think you've looked properly yet, Matt. There'll be some. Uh, Sam says the website looks great. Thank you, Sam. Uh, always good to see you, my friend. Um, let me just delete— Ros is on. Hi, Ros.

Mike Harris: How you doing?

Matt Edmundson: Uh, hopefully you're having a beautiful day. Sam says hi. Ellis, new website is much better, by the way.

Dan Orange: Good, good feedback.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. It's all very good feedback about the website, which is great. Uh, Katharine is on 1886. Normally when people put their usernames— so Katharine 1886, right? Normally when people put their users, like the year of birth, isn't it? So welcome. That's quite impressive. Uh, so good to have you on board. Uh, let me just clear out some of these things. There we go. Um, so yeah, great to see you, great to have you on board. Uh, Mike, what we talking— well, what are you talking about tonight?

Mike Harris: Um, so today we are talking about service. Um, we're talking about how Jesus created a new way of living, a new way of, um, leading. Um, I'm gonna look at— yeah, we're gonna look at that and how Jesus demonstrated that.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic, fantastic. Well, Uh, unless I've missed something, Dan.

Dan Orange: No, I think that's—

Matt Edmundson: should we jump into it?

Dan Orange: Jump into it.

Matt Edmundson: It's okay. So we're going to jump into the talk. The legendary Mike Harris, also known as Superman, uh, is going to talk about service and this thing that Jesus set up. We're going to get into conversation street. Uh, grab your notebooks, grab your pens, write in the comments. We'd love to hear your thoughts, your ideas. Um, and of course, if you need Superman during the talk, just again write that in the comments. Mike will surely answer. Over to you, Mike.

Mike Harris: Great. Well, it is super to be here. And just as a little bit of a recap for those of you who maybe didn't see last week's Crowd Church, Ade was speaking and he was speaking about answering the question, who is our neighbor? And we had a little look at that and we had a look at why that was important to the to the guy who asked that question, um, and we looked at, you know, who our neighbor is. And today we are looking at how we treat our neighbor, um, and so that, that's what I'm going to be looking at. And the passage, um, which I'm going to read out is in the Gospel of John, so John's eyewitness account, um, and it's in chapter 13. So I'm just going to start by reading a little bit of that. It only takes a few minutes. So this is John chapter 13, and it says this: It was just before the Passover festival, and Jesus knew the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God. So he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. I'm then going to jump to verse 12. When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. I have set you an example, that you should do as I have done for you. Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them. Okay, so that is the passage, uh, quite a famous passage, uh, of Jesus washing the disciples' feet. And so first of all, I just want to point out a few things about this passage. So the first thing is, um, a little bit of context. So Jesus is not far off going to the cross to die. He knows that that is where he's heading, um, and he decides that this is a really, um, that one of the things that he wants to leave with the disciples is this example about how to serve. And so Jesus decides that he's gonna take on the position of the lowest possible servant and wash his disciples' feet. You see, back in those times, if a Jewish, um, person had Jewish slaves, he wouldn't— the master wouldn't even ask the Jewish slaves to wash people's feet. It was too degrading for them. He would actually ask— only ask Gentile slaves to do this job. This was even within slaves, there was like this hierarchy, and the Gentile slave was the one who was asked to clean feet because it was the lowest, the most degrading job. And Jesus decides to place himself in that role. And so he takes off his outer clothes, he wraps a towel around him, and he takes on the role of this low Gentile slave. He performs this act, and then at the end of the act, he tells his disciples to do the same, and if they do it, then they will be blessed. You see, this act of Jesus serving his disciples pointed back to his life, to everything that he had done, and that it was all an act of service. That this act of washing his disciples' feet is like what he's been doing since the start. He's been serving those that are ill, those that are sick, those that are around him. He's been serving them and teaching them and feeding them, and he's been laying himself down in order to raise up these other people. And so it's pointing back. It's actually, just for those geeks amongst you, it actually points even further back to Joseph. Uh, you know, I've got to, uh, thank a friend of mine, Alison, who pointed this out to me, that back when Joseph— and for those who don't know, Joseph and the technical, the dream coat and all that, that sort of story— his brothers eventually come to him in Egypt And through his steward, he provides water for his brothers, his 11 brothers, of which, you know, he's the 12th, for them to wash their feet. So you've got Joseph providing water for his brothers to have their feet washed before he announces who he is, before he reveals who he is. And then in Jesus, you've got Jesus washing the 12 disciples' feet before he goes to the cross to reveal who he is. So they're similar but different because Jesus is the one who takes on the role of the slave. You see, with Joseph, it was his slave who took the water out to wash his brother's feet, but Jesus took on that role himself in order to wash his disciples' feet. You see, Jesus calls us to serve and to, to live a life of service. This act pointed backwards to Jesus's life before this point. It was a present act of service, and it also pointed to the fact that he was just about to not just lay down his hopes and dreams, but to lay down his life on the cross. That even— he even lay his life down before death. He submitted to death, even death on a cross. And so Jesus calls us to serve and to serve our neighbor. And so the question, you know, for me, and, and it's the same question that was asked last time, is how can I do this? Of course, I could just go out and start serving, but how can I do this? And for this, we have to look at verse 3 of this. And it says this in verse 3, it said, Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power and that he had come from God and was returning to God. You see, Jesus knew who he was and where he'd come from. And in order for us to serve in the way that Jesus calls us to, we need to know those two things. We need to know who we are, and we need to know where we've come from. You see, because it's only then that we can serve like Jesus did, from a point of, of power. And it's only then that it is, that it is powerful and that it is useful. We need to know who we are. Well, first of all, in order to know who you are, you need to look at Jesus. You need to read the Bible, and the Bible will tell you a number of things. And you can go and look at these. I would encourage you to Google 'Who am I in Christ?' and you'll get big lists of verses and promises that tell you who you are. So you are loved unconditionally. Romans 8:38-39 tells us that there is nothing that can, um, separate you from Jesus's love. You are forgiven. There is no condemnation. You are a new creation. You are a— you are the workmanship of God, created in order to do good works. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God himself lives in you. And so when you first of all recognize who you are, you don't now have to compete for attention. You don't have to compete for affirmation. You have that already because you know who you are, and that then enables you to be able to serve like Jesus did. But also, you need to know where you came from last week. Ade, um, talked brilliantly about, um, the Good Samaritan. And in Conversation Street, me and Dan, we were talking about the fact that in that story, it's, it's easy to think, oh, how do I serve other people? But it's also important to remember that we were the robber who was left for dead on the side of the road. And in the Good Samaritan story, you've got, um, the Samaritan who eventually comes and saves this robber, um, puts him on his donkey, takes him to the inn and makes sure everything is there for him and pays for all of his care and stuff like that. You know, we were the robber who was on the side of the road. But Jesus, through his death and resurrection, have come and saved us and restored us and made us a new creation. And when we start to read the Bible and we look at Jesus's life and we look at where we have come from, that enables us further to be able to empathize with those that are around us and serve them better. So we need to know who we are and we need to know where we've come from. We also need to know, like Jesus did, where we are heading. And you know, Jesus has prepared— is preparing a place for you. We are going to rule and reign in paradise with the one who is love, the one who has defeated death. And we are called and we are going to reign with Jesus. In that place. And that is something that we can look forward to, have hope in, fix— try and fix in our gaze. So let's remember who we are, where we've come from, and where we're heading. And that'll help us to serve. You know, I sometimes, um, look at people who are famous, people who are, you know, very, very wealthy. And I've taken a bad example, but Elon Musk. And I've had conversations with people, and I've joined in these conversations where I'm like, if only, you know, given all of the power, given all of the money that he has, he could do this and he could solve this problem. And if he just did this with his power, with his influence, then he could solve this problem. And he could do this, and he could do that, and he could solve all these problems. You know, when you look at other people, you know, like the President of America with all of this power, and if only they could do this and this, then they would be able to solve all these problems. I want to tell you today that heaven roars you on. Heaven looks down at you with all of the power and all of the authority and all of the possibilities that you have within you. And is roaring you on to serve and to influence those that are around you, to be it, to be Jesus' hands and feet with those that are around you, like your neighbor, like I talked about last week. And with the power of God in you, you are being cheered on. Um, and maybe today is time for you to to accept that challenge, to accept who you are, to accept where you've come from, to accept that you have been placed where you are. You have been given the power of God and that you are called to serve where you are right now and have an enormous impact where you are. I can't remember who it is who says, um, who is it? Dallas Willard was saying— I was reading today and he says that God's world is an arena, and you have a huge role, an indispensable role to play in it. I, I just want to throw out that challenge because this is a challenging piece of scripture, that you have been called and placed where you are. It is time to get up and kneel down. I just want to finish with, um, a little story that I heard a friend of mine say this week. It's just, just quite an inspiring story about how one man, um, saved someone in front of him. So this guy, I think he was a Catholic priest, and he really, really enjoyed running, um, but didn't have loads of money, but saved and saved and saved and was able to eventually buy a really good pair of running trainers. And he went out running in them, and they were brilliant. They were everything that he'd hoped they were going to be. And, you know, they were expensive, and he recognized that, you know, they were going to last a long time, and so he thought they were a worthwhile investment. A few days after he'd bought them and been out in them and realized how good they were, a guy turned up at his door, um, and didn't speak the same language, and, um, didn't have any shoes on, um, and clearly looked homeless, um, and looked in need of some, some real care. And so this guy was pointing to his feet and he needed something to wear on his feet. And so this guy went and got all the shoes in his house and put them before him, and he was trying them on, and the only ones that would fit were this pair of running shoes that, um, that, that this guy had just bought. And so, uh, the, the guy eventually decided, well, if they're the ones that fit, then you can take them. And, and he took them and he went off. That night, this guy had a dream. And in this dream— and as he was recounting this story, he could barely get the dream out because he was bawling his eyes out. And as he was explaining this dream, before him in this dream stood this man who he knew to be Jesus, wearing the trainers that he'd given to this guy. And this— the guy who, who gave up these trainers, you know, when he woke up in the morning, you know, he— one of the thoughts that he had was I could have missed that chance. I could have just gone and got any pair of shoes, a pair of shoes that, you know, that we didn't use, and brought them, and, and this guy would have been made up with them. And I might have missed this opportunity to give to my Lord, to my Savior, to my King, the best of what I had. You know, the people who you are surrounded by today they need you to serve them. They need you to show them Jesus. And what better way? You know, Jesus calls us to serve, to lay down our life for each other and for our friends. And when we do that, we don't always know or even get to see the power, um, that those acts have. Um, but they are powerful. You know, just, just to return to what Dallas Willard said, he says that God's world is an arena and you have an indispensable role to play. It is time for us to get up and for us to lay down. Back to you in the studio. Where I reside also. I thought I was on TV-am.

Dan Orange: Yeah, love that.

Matt Edmundson: He's like 1.5 meters away, because I'm not even that, like maybe a meter. I could probably smack you up with that.

Mike Harris: You probably could.

Matt Edmundson: So back to the studio. TV, you're going to have to explain TV-am.

Mike Harris: Yeah, that's a cultural reference from the past.

Matt Edmundson: That is a, there's only a certain subset of people. Maybe Katharine who was born in 1886.

Mike Harris: Maybe she can remember that. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Although Alicia put in the comments Um, uh, I, I saw this actually. We'll get on to the talk in a second, but I did see this because her, uh, YouTube is 1316 or something like that. Oh wow, 1316. And she goes it was just a random number assigned by YouTube, it's not the year she was born. She was at great pains to point that out. So, um, yes, anyway, regardless of whatever age you are, you're welcome at Crowd Church. Uh, we like multi-generational church. Um, to be fair, it's normally me that's the end of the old jokes.

Dan Orange: So yeah, you're the '80s.

Matt Edmundson: I mean, yeah, we went on to, um, uh, we've just— I've just literally got back from Wildfires, which is like a, a festival, Christian festival down in the south of England. If you're in the UK next August, highly recommend it. I'm going to be there. We're going to talk more about it on Crowd. Come join us. Anyway, the, um, Uh, where was I going with that? What did you just say? I totally lost my train of thought.

Dan Orange: The '80s.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, the '80s.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So we're down at Wildfires and, um, Anna, who you will know if you're a regular to Crowd, she's one of the, the key hosts, one of the leaders of Crowd. Her and Andy, um, went to one of these sort of game exchange cafes, which I'd never heard of. It's where you go— have you heard of this?

Mike Harris: No. You go into Wildfires.

Matt Edmundson: No, it wasn't our Wildfires, it was on the sort of way to Wildfires. It's where you go, you take a game and you leave that game but you take another game. So it's like a game swap, which is kind of cool. Anyway, Anna bought, uh, '80s Trivia.' We thought you'd like this, Matt, but we never actually did play on Wildfires. Um, so maybe we'll do that on live on the air one day. Anyway, I digress. Um, love that, Mike. So it's, it's interesting, is it? This whole— I think with these kind of stories, right, you— they become so familiar that you you— it's like you don't think about it, becomes autonomous. I mean, it's like, yeah, we know Jesus washed his disciples' feet, I probably should do something and serve at some point, and you're off to the next one.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, what was the biggest challenge when you prepared the talk?

Mike Harris: The biggest challenge was thinking about— I was talking last week about these two groups of people. And you hear us talk about you need to serve, and you've got one group of people who will just go out and do it. They're just people who say, right, if Jesus says I'm to serve, then I'm gonna go and serve.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: And then you've got the other group of people who just don't think they're worthy.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: And so they just feel condemned.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: So you've got one group of people who just go and do it, their heart isn't really in it, but they just go and do it. And then you've got the other group of people you just feel condemned. And so the challenge was to try and think about, so how do we, how do we help, how do we help both groups?

Dan Orange: Yeah, I loved it, Mike. I really loved the, the heaven, heaven roars you on.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Dan Orange: And that, and like you were saying, it, it's easy to say, oh, Elon Musk could do that, these people could say that, Bill Gates can, you know, make another vaccine, pay for that. Um, always putting the emphasis on someone else because they've got, got money. But we have, we have heaven's resources, don't we?

Mike Harris: We've got—

Dan Orange: no matter what our task is, God's got something for us to do. Like that, that priest giving his, his running shoes, you know, that if you can affect a life like that, that's what God wants us to to do.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point, isn't it? And I think, um, it's one of those things where you— well, this is put here in the comments actually, uh, what in our society is the washing of people's feet that we could do for others? And that's a really interesting question, I think. Now I want to tie this in actually with something that Alicia said. So, um, she put in the comments. Let me see if I can find it here. Uh, it's incredible how Christ demonstrates such humility, and that humility isn't at all humiliation but a powerful demonstration of his love and majesty. And it reminds me of Ephesians 2:10: For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Now, if you've not seen these comments, by the way, we, we live stream both horizontally and vertically on YouTube. There's two live streams going on, uh, and so we have to sort of remember to look at the comment streams. Um, but this is an interesting point, I think, because Ellis is asking what are the washing of the feet things. And I love, uh, and I was in the comments chatting with Alicia about this because I think it's great that it sort of defines these good works that God's got before that God's sort of preordained that we walk in. These good works are acts of service, right? That's what the word ministry— yeah— is. And he's prepared these ahead of time for us to do.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so, um, yeah, I guess, what are these good works in the modern-day era? And I guess coupled with that is, how do you see them as good works rather than a chore Because in my head, do you— I mean, when you're— I don't know, maybe Zoe is better answering this question, but when we talked about chores with our kids, the word chore is never a word you'd go, that's— how can I, how can I do more chores, Dad? I'm so excited about doing chores. It's just the word chore itself. You did, you washed our feet metaphorically. Um, it's true, we were away and Zoe had made dinner for when we got back. Because she's a legend. But it's, it's interesting, isn't it, because we view these things as chores. There's a negative connotation with them. So, um, chores is a very—

Dan Orange: yeah, it doesn't inspire, does it? Because it is just like, got it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I've got to put the trash out. Yeah, it's a chore.

Dan Orange: That's for sure. Rather than—

Matt Edmundson: yeah, well, I just need to serve my wife.

Dan Orange: Yeah, yeah, right. It's just something I, yeah, I need to do.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Harris: Fascinating.

Dan Orange: I love, um, so Mike, you, you put that God's got an indispensable role, or was that what Dallas Willard said? Uh, yeah, I really like that, that phrase, because it is, isn't it? We— I can think sometimes, oh, someone else could do that, or I could do this, but is that as good as that? Or it's not as great as what Paul did or Peter did. You know, he's got an indispensable role for us as individuals. We can't— I think we talked last week it's not something to compare. Yeah, you know, it's not— not my task I've got to do is comparable with someone else's. That doesn't work. It's just what God's got for us, let's do for him. And, and that's the important thing. It doesn't— it doesn't matter about its size or its, you know, standing or whatever that might be.

Mike Harris: Yeah, yeah, I, I totally agree. And I think, I think you But you're still on a really good point there, is in that you're doing it for God. And I think sometimes, you know, I can see something, I see a way of serving somebody, but I might not particularly like that person. But I know that there's commands for me to serve, but I do know that I love God. And so I think sometimes that's where we can get our motivation from. We could say, okay, at this moment I don't have those gushing feelings towards this person, but I do love God, and therefore I love for God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. And I think the more you do that, you know, I, I know I've experienced this in my own life on occasions where, where I've decided to do that for somebody, is that the emotions, the emotions follow. Yeah, but then they're not always the driver. Yes. Um, yeah, and yeah, there's an interesting part at the end of that which can be a bit confused at the end of that passage where Jesus basically says, look, a slave is not greater than his master. And, and Jesus is saying, you aren't greater than I am, and look at what I'm doing, I'm washing the disciples' feet. And so we can identify with, with Jesus and say, yes, you are right, I'm not greater than you. I've seen you washing other people's feet, and therefore I'm gonna do the same. I'm gonna, you know, I'm, I'm gonna step up and I'm gonna do it. Um, yeah, I think it's also good, that verse that you said. It, it talks about the good works that God has prepared for us to do. Now, that good is good according to him. Yeah, not necessarily according to us. Yeah, Romans 8:28 says God works all things for the good of those who love him. And so we think everything in my life, God's working to make me better, to make me bigger, to make me stronger. It's like, yeah, no, the good is according to him.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Yeah, and you know, we, we do have heaven to look forward to and paradise to look forward to, but, but that good is, is, is according to him. Yeah, not, you know, and sometimes that is gonna elevate us. Yeah, lift us up. Yeah. And sometimes it's going to mean that we—

Matt Edmundson: well, more often than it's, it's not.

Mike Harris: It's not.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's, it's more about, uh, other people, isn't it? So I love this idea. I mean, you made reference to it, Mike. I love this idea that in the Bible Jesus tells you how to be great. In the sense that greatness, or being great, was often seen in the church as a sort of a dirty word. I mean, what do you mean? Because you shouldn't want to be great. Have no aspirations, have no drive. I mean, have no desire to do great things. Jesus says, no, if you want to be great, that's awesome, man. Yeah, here's how you do it. You'd be serving.

Dan Orange: Paul says run the race to win, doesn't he? Run the race to dawdle, or, you know.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. Do it, do it, don't fart about, but do it. And it's like, but he says, if you want to be great, you've got to be servant to all. He throws the whole thing upside down. And so leadership, then ministry becomes about who you serve rather than who serves you.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so the good works that God's got beforehand that we should walk in will often be a blessing to someone else, or will be to serve someone else. And usually as you guys talked about last week, that will be at a cost to us.

Mike Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so not all the time. And you do get that, um, there is a benefit, I think, to serve. And even psychologists now say this, don't they, that you get this sort of, um, uh, kind of really good sort of feeling and vibe when you help somebody or when you give something. Do you know what I mean? And it's, um, and so it's not totally altruistic But at the same time, good works, like you say, are what God says, and usually that's for the benefit of somebody else. You are blessed to be a blessing, right? It's that whole drive. And I, I find that super duper challenging.

Mike Harris: I mean, it's super challenging, especially within the context within which we live, which is all about stepping on each other, elevating yourself. How quickly can you get up that ladder?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: How many likes? How many subscribers? All of that kind of thing.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Um, you know, and, and, and so we're called to swim against that, and that's really hard, really hard to do.

Matt Edmundson: And well, it is because we live in a, in a— and just thinking that through, right, our whole culture is, I want it faster and I want it easier, right? I don't want any effort involved in what's going on. The whole thing about AI, everyone's you either hate it or love it because there's going to be a robot that's going to bring you a cup of tea whenever you want it, right? And we're all like, oh, and it's, it's this idea that actually those kind of tasks are menial, they're beneath us. And here we see Jesus doing the most menial and lowest of tasks, which is washing the disciples' feet. And it's— he didn't— he wasn't like, dude, come here, feet are dirty, sort them out. Here are my feet, do me a pedicure while you're at it. It wasn't, it wasn't like that, was it? It was like, here, give me your feet, dude, I know they stink, I'm gonna sort it. This is not like— I wouldn't want to do that job. I genuinely wouldn't want to do that. No, I've got a thing about touching people. I just, I don't know, I don't know how he did it. Yeah, but it's just, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it is this kind of idea that greatness is found in the menial tasks, doing them for other people. I don't see that many leadership books You don't, you don't.

Mike Harris: And, uh, you know, the thing is that, that those opportunities to serve like that are all around us. Yeah. And, you know, like Dallas Willard was saying, we've got this indispensable role to play, and Jesus has prepared these good works for us to do. And it's such a challenge for me because, you know, that there will be times— I'm sure today where there have been opportunities for me to lay aside my hopes for the day to serve somebody else. Yeah, it has to be. Yeah, it has to be. And I've not seen them. Yeah, I've been too busy. Yeah, I've been too elevated in my own thinking that I've missed them. Um, but, but, but they're there. Yeah, they're there for— they're there for all of us. And not only that, But God has given us everything we need, all the resources of heaven, everything we need to be able to go and fulfill that role and meet that need.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Um, and it's a challenge. Yeah, it's a challenge.

Matt Edmundson: It is. So what would you say then, going back to Ellis's question, are some of the modern-day examples of washing people's feet? Because I mean, if you just went in the street and said, can I wash your feet? I'm not sure that would go down particularly well, but I, I, what would be, do you think, some modern examples of this?

Mike Harris: Two, two examples that I'm thinking of that have just come to mind, very, very different. Um, first one is for, is to, I'm looking for the best way to describe this, not befriend but bless people who are seen as toxic. So, you know, for some people who've maybe messed up in terrible ways, being the person who's prepared to risk your reputation to go and, um, administer something of Jesus' love to them.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Um, to not completely disown them, that would potentially be something that could, that could put some dirt on you, if you like. Yes. Um, another way, I, I think just praising other people. I think the more, the more I'm online, the less I see of people praising— yes, other people.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: And I think, I think it's a lost art. And you know, when you praise somebody else, you, you really are trying to lift them up, potentially at your own expense. Um, so yeah, so I think wholeheartedly praising other people and looking for things that are praiseworthy in other people and praising them for it. Yeah. Um, is one another way to do it.

Matt Edmundson: It's a really good point, just being generous.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Dan Orange: I like that, Mike. And I think nowadays with the whole cancel culture, it's very easy to not even, not even, you know, if you're online, not even like something because you're concerned that, that, that links you to that. Yeah, to that, that statement. What, you know, I like what they said there, but what about what they said, you know, 10 years ago? But it's the same as, same as me, isn't it? We've, yeah, we are infallible people. Infallible? Fallible.

Matt Edmundson: I don't know how infallible I am. You go for it. I mean, you are Batman.

Dan Orange: We, we make mistakes. That's easy.

Mike Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: Um, and it's, yeah, just, just praising what, what someone's said or done, or just, yeah, loving them in that way.

Mike Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: Even I was thinking a more, much more menial thing. The first person to make the cup of tea, you know, in our culture, it's not like sitting there, oh, I made one last time, you know, and you're in the office. Yeah, it's your turn. He hasn't got one. Yeah, he hasn't done the round. Yeah. Being the first person, just little, yeah, little things.

Mike Harris: I, I know it's another, um, you know, sort of spiritual thing, but I think forgiving people as well, it's just really hard and it costs you a lot. And you don't, you don't see anything about forgiveness really on social media other than to say you need to forgive people because it benefits you. Um, And you know, that's another thing that can put this on you in one sense, and it's gonna cost you. Yeah, it's gonna cost you to do that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think it's— whenever you think about serving or ministering to somebody, the way I would answer this question— I mean, we can sit here and come up with a thousand different ways. Yeah, right, of how to do it. I think what happens is God puts opportunities in front of you. Yeah, right. And it's more, God, help me see the opportunity that I have in front of me. And usually that is found, um, in a people group that you probably have a bit of a heart for, right? So, um, some people have a heart, say, for the homeless. So the guys at Green Pastures Charity, a registered charity in the UK run by Andrew and his dad Pastor Pete, amazing charity, got a real heart for the homeless.

Dan Orange: Right?

Matt Edmundson: And they serve the homeless in a great way. Um, you've got people who have a heart for, say, sex workers. You've got people who've got a heart for those that work in the NHS or in medicine, right? So yeah, there's, there's something God will have put inside you, I would say, Ellis, where you have a heart for a certain people group. And so the big question then becomes, if that's where I'm feeling that specific aspect of of God's outpouring through me, how do I best serve in that community, in that people group? Um, and I think the easiest way to find that out is just to go and ask somebody, because that— to talk to anybody for 5 minutes, I'll tell you what the 4 biggest problems are in whatever it is they're working in. And you go, right, well, how can I make a difference there? And I think it's such a powerful way of reframing rather than just going, oh, well, that's nasty, isn't it? They're just gonna have to sort that out or, or do whatever. So today we were, um, uh, we had, you know, visiting one of the NHS hospitals. It's easy to complain about the hospital, um, and, you know, but at the same time, I'm like, how can I serve these people? How can I, how can I bless them? How can I encourage them? Um, and so you know, when you're talking to the nurse or whatever, I always like to use a phrase, legend. You are a legend. I mean, and just coming back to heaping praise on people.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, rather than you are a pain in the neck and you need to sort your life out, which may be true. Um, but we'll start with the legend first. But I think, where's your heart? What's that, that people group God has got on your heart? But also, what are the opportunities in front of you right now? Just think back through your day, and if you're in the, you know, world where today is just literally starting for you, think back through your yesterday and just think through 3 or 4 events. I reckon there'll be half a dozen opportunities in there for you to serve, right? So me being in the hospital, there would have been opportunities there to serve. Even here tonight, coming in, we have opportunities. You got here early and you set all of this up so we didn't have to do it, which was great. Yeah. Um, thank you, Dan, appreciate that. But it's, it's like there was none of that, or you weren't here on time, you know what I mean? It's like, I've done all of this. Which, no, this isn't—

Mike Harris: this is—

Matt Edmundson: it's not— it's not the vibe, it's not the culture. We just like, how can we serve? How can we bless each other? Um, even on the campsite, everybody was taking everybody's tents down. How, how they all got packed up, no idea. Um, but it was just, it was just lovely to see everybody sort of digging in and and helping. There's always opportunities to serve, and they don't have to— see, the thing about washing the disciples' feet, I look at that and go, that's weird. But it was an everyday thing. It happened all the time. It needed doing on a regular basis, and Jesus just went away and did it. It was not a big monumental thing that needed a million-pound fundraising. Do I mean, it was just like, I'll go do that.

Mike Harris: Yeah, I'll go do that.

Dan Orange: It doesn't, it doesn't have to be a big thing. Me and my wife were traveling on Monday, and we listened to this unbelievable podcast.

Matt Edmundson: Like, was it What's the Story?

Dan Orange: It wasn't that one, actually, but it was—

Matt Edmundson: that is a number—

Dan Orange: it is a very good podcast. Yeah, but on this occasion it wasn't that one. Um, it was a guy called Simon Guillebaud who's been on What's the Story.

Matt Edmundson: In fact, Simon was at Wildfire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: He was talking with a lady called Mary, and I put the link on because just Unbelievable.

Mike Harris: She—

Dan Orange: very, very brief. She just, oh, lived a horrendous—

Matt Edmundson: Sorry, did you say you've put the link on? No, I will do. I'll do that next.

Dan Orange: Horrendous upbringing. So many things happened to her. Anyway, you need to listen to the story, but she was saying that this is my last walk. I'm going out. I'm with my dog. She's homeless. She looked a mess. She was going to basically end her life before she probably did some damage to this guy that had really abused her. And a guy just walked past her and said, how was your day? No, have a good day. And that's it. Never saw that guy again. Radically changed her, changed her life. Like, just that, that word, because she looked a mess.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Dan Orange: And it was the right time for her. And I think it really spoke to me that it doesn't have to be big gestures. Yeah, just sometimes it's people that we wouldn't, we wouldn't talk to, or just— we are— we're aware of God's prompting just to not be in our own thoughts all the time. And, uh, yeah, really spoke to me.

Mike Harris: Wow.

Dan Orange: Yeah, beautiful testimony. She's just impacted so many lives and stuff since.

Mike Harris: Yeah. Yeah, amazing. I, I think, um, one thing throughout the day that would change, um, my motivation is to remember that when, like that guy who just says have a great day, something like that, but I think about going throughout my day and all the opportunities that I've got to serve is to remember that when I see an opportunity to serve, that it's God who's asking me to go and do that. I think sometimes the, the task can seem menial. If, if, say, you're, you know, you're working in an office or something like that, and there's something that needs doing that isn't your job, and you go and do it. And maybe it seems menial because you think doing this is, is helping my boss or something like that. But when we remember that that task— go and say hello to that person— is something that God— a good work that God has planned in advance for you to do, you're being asked by the Creator of the universe to go and do that. Yeah. And we mess it up all the time, and we don't do it, and we create a thousand reasons why we shouldn't. But remembering, as you go through your day looking for opportunities, that is that it is the Creator of the universe that is asking you to go and do that. And I think that changes things. That changes things when it's like, it does.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah.

Mike Harris: Can you, can you put that chair away? Can you do this? Can you do that? Can you pay for this for that person? Um, I'm more motivated to do that when I remember that it's he who has gone before me and prepared these works for me to do.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. So, so that comes back to what you said earlier, remember? Who you are, where you've come from, where you're going.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and, and I know, and you drew it out actually right at the start of that verse, um, or this— right at the start of those verses. Uh, what was it it said? Let me just pull up the scripture here, uh, so I don't mess it up. But it was, um, Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power. That's a remarkable statement, isn't it? It's like, all things are under my power. And it's like, even in the midst of that, he still serves. Remember who you are, where you've come from, where you're going. And I think that sense of identity frees you from this need to try and prove yourself, right? Or by having everybody serve me, right? Look how good I am, I've got all this going on around me. Um, this sort of— it frees you from that need because you go, well, I'm God's, I'm already enough. He's given me everything I need that pertains to life and godliness. I'm content with that. Bring it on. I can now serve. I don't need to prove anything to anybody, right? And I think there's something quite remarkable about that. Um, that verse is not there by accident. When John wrote this gospel, um, or Mark, or, you know, whoever wrote the gospel, um, it's like, yes, Jesus knew this and he did it anyway. I love that. That's the, you know, that's the whole, um, Philippians thing. And let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus. He did not consider it robbery to be called equal with God. And it's like, who humbled himself even to the point of death and became a servant. I mean, is that— that's the whole deal. It's like, humble yourself, become a servant, and change the world. It's a, it's a remarkable formula. We should put that on a t-shirt. New t-shirt slogan. Um, just look at the comments.

Mike Harris: Um, I think as Jesus, you know, used lots of parables a lot of the time to be able to communicate things, but just as what you were saying then, Matt, you know, he was asked who will be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven, and he answered that quite plainly. He says, be the humble. And, you know, the— for me, you, you know, what, what greater act of humility than than Jesus washing the disciples' feet. But you've got to remember, like, all of the things that Jesus made him— made himself not subject to, but placed himself under. So you've got all the tax system, you've got the fact that he's in a human body, you've got the fact that he grew up with all the temptations, you've got the fact that there was rules, bad rules, bad occupation that he had to— and he had all the power.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Yeah, to solve it in a second. Yeah, distorted culture. He was faced with, you know, all these disciples that were just absolutely useless, and, you know, and then he submitted to even death itself.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: And you just think, yeah, that, that's humility. And, and the way we get humility is by, is, is, is by knowing who we are. Where we've come from.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Mike Harris: Um, and where we're going, and when, when we know that we can, we can serve.

Dan Orange: And the next day, you know, he's going to be crucified. You know, that's the— I think, I can't do much today because it's work tomorrow, you know.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting crucified.

Dan Orange: Yeah, but I'm still going to wash your feet. Yeah, yeah. I need to get this done. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: It's a really interesting point then. I've not thought about it. Um, so, uh, Alicia has put in the comments, one of my recent projects is figuring out how to make one of my sister's brownies. It's a small thing, but our kitchen makes me claustrophobic, so it feels big to me, and it means a lot to her because she knows how uncomfortable I get in tight spaces. Sometimes it really is the little things. Um, don't ask me why I made my— okay, yeah, yeah. Um, well, one Anybody out there that wants to make, uh, the brownies for Crowd Church, for the hosts and the speakers of Sunday livestream? Oh yes, all is greatly received. But, uh, I love that. It's, it's the little things. And actually, again, Alicia's highlighted this point that it sometimes costs you. You've got to put yourself in uncomfortable positions, right? It can feel weird in the sense of it's unusual, it's a little bit different to go out and serve. Um, so it can— it would, it would feel weird if I started washing feet, for example. I mean, but it's like it— so it can cost you, it can, it can feel like that. So I think that's awesome. Keep making the brownies, and I'm sure your sister will love it. Um, uh, helping those who are heavily judged by society seems like a timeless example of washing people's feet. Yes, I would totally agree. Yeah. Um, Ellis's question makes me think of groups who are still heavily stigmatized, like those with visibly displayed addictions and visible psychiatric— psychiatric—

Mike Harris: yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, symptoms. I think that's a big one, isn't it? Mental health. There's a big opportunity to serve, uh, yeah, in a whole arena there. Uh, what's happening in August? Oh, good. Jeez, we should probably talk about, um, August. I'll come back to that. Um, thinking of 1 Corinthians— this is Alicia again— uh, 12:22: on the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable, we treat them with special honor. That's, that's a really cool thing in church. Um, that we should be doing a lot more. Um, yeah, very good. Hopefully I've got through all of the comments. Matt Crew says drop some brownies off for all website proofreaders as well. Yeah, I think you've got something going on with the brownies, Alicia. I just— yeah, that's it, everyone's just now thinking of brownies, um, which is just a beautiful thing. So, um, thanks, Mike.

Mike Harris: That's all right.

Matt Edmundson: Thanks, Dan. Um, before we go, let's talk about what is— let me just remind you what's going to happen in August. Uh, so we do have the non-live livestream, so we will still be putting stuff out every week. Um, I'm just looking slightly wide-eyed because— just put Mike's camera on the screen. His background's changed.

Dan Orange: He's on holiday already.

Mike Harris: Like, that's what's happening.

Dan Orange: Mike's already there.

Matt Edmundson: He's joining us live from the beach, which I absolutely love. Is that, is that just totally gone now? So is that what's happened? Okay, you're gonna fix that. Um, so yes, I love that. That's brilliant. Uh, so yeah, we're gonna do the non-live live streams in August, so do keep joining in. Just still write your comments. People will be joining in and watching. Uh, the small groups, depending on which small group you're in, may or may not be happening, but the small group leaders will be, uh, informing you about that. Like I said, every bit of information you need is on the website. Coming up in September, we are making some big changes. Well, I'd say big— let me not overemphasize. We're going to make some changes to Crowd Church. Uh, we're going to introduce church membership, uh, which we're going to talk about. We're going to be doing small groups slightly differently, um, bigger and better ergo more awesome. Um, so really excited about some of the changes coming to small groups. Um, so if you're not a member of a church, if you're not, uh, and you would like Crowd to be your church, we'd love to talk to you about membership. Um, the small groups— if you're not in small groups, come join us on Wednesday night. We'd love to see you in the various small groups. If you'd like to talk to me or Dan or Mike or anyone of the Crowd Church leadership just about Crowd, what's going on, all that sort of stuff. Um, before obviously becoming like a member, uh, we'd love to talk to you. Um, but yeah, what else is happening in Crowd in September? Um, more in-person meetups. Yes, that's another big thing that's happening. We're going to be doing a lot more in-person meetups around the UK, and we're going to be doing them in the north and in the south. Wildfires next year, which literally I've just come off the back of, we're going to be doing a big crowd gathering there at Wildfires. If you'd like to come join us, we'd love to see you there. Um, more details will be coming up on the website soon, but you'll probably have to book that quite quickly because Wildfires does sell out quite, quite quickly. Uh, Alicia says there's so many exciting developments.

Mike Harris: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, Ellis, what's membership? Uh, stay connected, Ellis. We will talk to you a bit more about that. Um, it's basically where you make brownies every week.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Dan Orange: Don't worry, membership does sound a bit sometimes like subscription and stuff like that. That's not it. Yeah, wait until September.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing, we promise. It's, uh, it's a good thing. It's right, you don't have to give your inside leg measurement, all that sort of stuff to join. Um, all it is is just saying, listen, um, I want to be part of— I want to be part of Crowd Church. We know from a pastoral standpoint where— who we're responsible for, um, which is really great, and who we're shepherding. Um, and so it's just— that's all it is. It's, it's not a big deal. But I would say it's not a big deal. Actually, I'm really excited by it. Um, I think it's going to be great. So that's— but like I say, a lot more information coming soon on the website. We will talk more about it in September, which is when we're going to launch all of these things. But for now, we are going to go to live lounge. I nearly called it livestream. It's not livestream, live lounge. Um, uh, Zoe's put it in the, the, the comments, the go.crowd.church/meet, if you'd like to come and meet us in there. Um, but yeah, any final comments from you, Mike?

Mike Harris: Um, I suppose just look out for ways to serve, uh, this week. And, um, just remember that it's Jesus, it's he who is asking you to serve. And, you know, maybe one way is just to praise people. Um, look for ways to, to praise people this week. Yeah.

Dan Orange: Dan, I think what, um, Mike said in his talk, just who you are in Christ, just perhaps just Google that. Who am I? If I— if you've given your life to God, yeah, search who are you in Christ and see what he's, what he's done for you. And if you haven't given your life to Jesus, get to know him. Yeah, you know, send an email if you've got any questions. Get to know this Jesus. Best decision you'll ever make.

Matt Edmundson: Very good, very true. Um, and, uh, you can also go to the Crowd Church website. There's a whole bunch of stuff about identity on there. Just click the identity link, um, and it'll be in there, um, all the scriptures, everything. A lot of talks about identity. So yes, um, well, have a phenomenal summer, um, uh, whatever you're doing in August. I hope you have a great time. Um, really, really excited for the summer plans. What have you got going on over summer? Are you doing anything exciting? You're going away?

Dan Orange: I'm going away, yes, at the end of— yeah, I was just saying, one of my customers has said we can stay in his, his place in Spain in the heat.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, okay.

Dan Orange: Which is pretty awesome. Yeah, he's not there, he's, he's getting out there and we're a family going. So very much looking forward to that. Yes, nice.

Matt Edmundson: Love that. What are you doing, Mike?

Mike Harris: Um, gardening, uh, for most of it.

Matt Edmundson: But I am— busiest time of the year for you and your gardening.

Mike Harris: So it is pretty busy. It is pretty busy. Um, looking to try and sell some plants and then we're off to Devon for the week.

Matt Edmundson: Nice, nice. Brilliant. Well, whatever your summer plans are, we wish you a very, very happy summer. Like I say, do stay connected with us over August. It just won't have the live conversation stuff. That will start again back in September. Hopefully we'll see you in Live Lounge, but that's it from me. That's it from Dan. That's it from Mike. God bless you. You are an absolute legend.

Mike Harris: See you soon. Bye for now.