The Parable of the Talents and the Comparison Trap

Will Sopwith: Good evening and welcome to Crowd Livestream. We're having all sorts of fun and games this evening with sound repeating and all sorts. We, so Dan, the wonderful Dan Orange is with me co-hosting, but he's just sorting out the tech. So, Ade, is with us remotely. Um, he's going to be speaking. Ade, how are you, and can you hear me?

Ade Birkby: I can hear you fine, and I am doing okay, thank you. I can also hear myself repeating everything I say, which is going to be really—

Will Sopwith: But hopefully by then the wonderful Dan and Zoe will have sorted out the sound. Um, if you are new to Crowd Church, you are most welcome. Um, it's normally a bit smoother than this, to be honest, but we are an online church Um, and there's all sorts of different ways you can engage. Um, please do look at the Crowd website to, to see that. Um, but the livestream on Sunday, uh, we, we have a talk and we chat about it in the studio here. Um, and there is also, uh, the facility to join a Zoom live lounge, um, during the talk and actually meet other people and see them face to face rather than just commenting, uh, in the chat on, on YouTube or Instagram. So if you would like to join the live lounge and, uh, and engage with others in conversation, uh, during the talk, uh, join the chat afterwards. Um, the link I think will come up, um, in the chat here. Um, welcome all those already in the live lounge. Uh, lovely to, to see you. Um, Dan, how's the audio?

Dan Orange: I'm having fun when Matt goes Off to a wedding. So congratulations to Callum and Sarah, who—

Will Sopwith: Yes, indeed.

Dan Orange: Members of Crowd.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, fantastic.

Dan Orange: Yeah, so celebration today. Um, but Matt the tech guru, we got audio.

Will Sopwith: He's booby-trapped the whole thing for us. He's probably watching remotely and laughing. Um, Ade, do you want to say hi again and see if you're still repeating?

Dan Orange: Well, um, Zoe is doing some very clever Okay.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, I can't—

Ade Birkby: I did say hello, but I seem to be mute. Ooh, but there's no repeat.

Will Sopwith: Excellent. Okay. It's working. Dan, welcome to Crowd Church. How are you doing?

Dan Orange: I'm good. If not a little sort of hectic, which— Just a little frazzled.

Will Sopwith: Great. And how's your week been?

Dan Orange: Yes, good week, good week. Um, I've been, um, this weekend my wife's been away, so we've had fun, me and the kids.

Will Sopwith: A lot of pizza and late nights then?

Dan Orange: Yeah, KFC, KFC, no, and then curry yesterday which I cooked. Um, and I've been preparing, I'm talking next week, so I've been preparing that talk.

Will Sopwith: Very good.

Dan Orange: Yeah, looking forward to that.

Will Sopwith: Good little plug in there for next week. So, um, yeah, You're very welcome. Uh, do put your comments, any questions in the chat, um, as we go through this evening and, uh, and we'll do our best to pick them up as we go to Conversation Street after what Ade has brought us. Um, and do get in touch with us in Crowd if you're, if you're new, um, if you're listening to this on, uh, on catch-up during the week and you're interested, uh, to get involved, please do get in touch. Um, all the details on crowd.church. Um, I think a plug of an Alpha course. The Alpha started coming up.

Dan Orange: Um, yeah, the Alpha started, so it's been 2 weeks now, but, um, 2 weeks. Yeah, still, still totally fine to join. In fact, we've had loads of people join halfway through, and often they've joined halfway through and then done it, the whole thing, the next time.

Will Sopwith: So, yeah. So an Alpha course, which is, uh, you might have heard of Alpha, is a course exploring what Christianity is. It's a very Um, it's a very easy, accessible format where you can come and you can ask whatever questions you have. And there's a format of a talk each week on some aspect of Christianity and an opportunity to explore it and discuss with others. That's online. Um, so wherever you're dialling in from, if you're interested in doing an Alpha course, please do get in touch. And, and if not the current one, um, then one that's coming up. Uh, we also have, uh, community, um, midweek. Um, I'm just—

Dan Orange: sorry, I'm just going to butt in. Um, I've just pressed a button here which might solve our audio issues. So, so if you leave everything done, and Ade, can you speak?

Ade Birkby: I'm still here.

Dan Orange: That'll be a negative to be fixing it. Okay, let's continue.

Will Sopwith: Sorry, we've entirely lost Ade now, just at the point where I was going to introduce him. Um, Ade, are you with us?

Ade Birkby: Um, I think so.

Will Sopwith: Very good to see you, sir. All right, well, without further ado, um, as I said, please, please do get involved, get, um, get involved with the chat, um, check us out on crowd.church. But this evening we have the wonderful Ade Birkby bringing our, uh, our talk. Um, he is not in Liverpool where we are sat in the studio, uh, he is remote in North Wales, which is why we've got the earpieces in and all the technical stuff is a little bit more tricky. But Ade, really good to have you, and over to you, and we'll be back later for Conversation Street.

Ade Birkby: Thank you very much. It's wonderful to be here tonight. We are continuing in the Jesus the Revolutionary series, and we're going to have a look at the Parable of the Talents and how it relates to comparison culture. Now, these days, thanks to social media, it's very hard to get away from comparison culture, looking on the platform of your choice at images of vacations, careers, holidays, stuff, you name it. And as human beings, we have a natural tendency to use social comparison to evaluate opinions and abilities in the absence of objective measures. And what we can find is this can lead to some really unrealistic norms, thanks to a lot of curated content on social media that can really distort what we are perceiving to be of our reality. The impact of this is, unfortunately, it tends to create low self-esteem, you know, the constant exposure to perceived perfection. It really drives body dissatisfaction, people's body imaging worsening from these online comparisons. And of course, FOMO, fear of missing out. It convinces us we've got a lack of something, creating this endless cycle of dissatisfaction. Now, there's lots of data out there. If you look at the 2023 UK national study, looked at 16 to 24-year-olds, Now, 93% of them felt pressure to compare themselves to others online. 93% of them experienced negative consequences as a result. 14% experienced suicidal thoughts as a result, and 74% wanted to change their body by surgery due to what they'd seen on social media. Now, the impact doesn't end just there. Other studies have shown that it does seem to peak in the 16 to 29 age group, very much linked to identity formation and peer acceptance. Now, in midlife, this seems to decline as 30 to 50-year-olds tend to have higher self-esteem and focus more on internal tracking versus peer metrics. And then interestingly, studies show a later life resurgence around 60 plus, but the comparisons are normally around health mobility and cognitive longevity. Now we're thinking the Bible was written an awful long time ago. What on earth can that teach us about comparison culture? Well, funnily enough, the parable of the talents does touch on this matter, and we're going to quickly read it now. It's very short. It's in Matthew 25:14-30. Again, it will be like a man going on a journey who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave 5 talents of money, to another 2 talents, and to another 1 talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the 5 talents went at once and put his money to work and gained 5 more. So also the one with 2 talents gained 2 more. But the man who had received the 1 talent went off, dug a hole in the ground, and hid his master's money. After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the 5 talents brought the other 5. Master, he said, you entrusted me with 5 talents. See, I have gained 5 more. Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness. The man with 2 talents also came. Master, he said, you entrusted me with 2 talents. See, I have gained 2 more. Well done, Good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness. Then the man who had received the 1 talent came. Master, he said, I knew you were a hard man, harvesting where you had not sown, gathering where you had not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you. You wicked lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered. Well, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. Take the talent from him And give it to the one who has the 10 talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have even what he has taken from him, and throw that worthless servant outside into the darkness where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. Now, if we look at this from a very simplistic high level, like you can do with many parables, there is a simple interpretation and a much deeper meaning. There's some very clear symbology here. The master, God, owns all things and departs on a journey. It symbolises the ascension of Jesus and then his eventual return. The servants symbolise humanity, specifically disciples and followers entrusted with God's estate. Talents can be life, time, material resources. Trading and multiplying, active engagement in, in God's work and living by faith. Burying talent, inaction, fear, distorted view of God's character. And the outer darkness, well, that's the final separation from God. Now that's the high level, and that's the simple look at it, but fortunately there's a whole lot more going on. And before we get into that, we'll just put a few things into context. So first of all, the timeline. Back in those days, travelling to a far-off country, you're looking at maybe 1 to 2 years or more on foot, horse, boat. So we're not talking about, you know, he's off for a couple of days or a couple of weeks and coming back. This is a big distance, and we are talking a matter of years. Also, For the workers to have actually entered the marketplace, established trade networks, bought and sold goods, and doubled their investment, we are talking about a significant amount of time here. It talks about talents. Now, a talent is a unit of precious metal, typically 30 to 45 kilos, usually silver, would have been worth 6,000 denarii. Realistically, it's worth about 20 years of labour. Now, if we were to put that into a modern context and think, well, the UK average or the median salary is £39,000 a year, even the man who got the 1 talent was still given £780,000. The man who got 2 talents was given £1.6 million, and the man with 5 talents, just shy of £4 million at £3.9 million. million. We are talking about earth-shattering amounts of wealth here being entrusted unto these servants. Now, the time when Jesus is actually telling this parable, it's toward the end of his ministry, and it's a bit tense with the disciples because before, in Matthew 24, he had predicted the temple would be destroyed, and his disciples are really anxious and confused. And Jesus knows what's coming. He knows he is about to be Arrested and executed. The economic reality this is actually set in, it was normal for wealthy landlords to live in cities or abroad and leaving their servants manage estates. What wasn't normal was to give them such a huge amount of wealth. I mean, this was exaggerated intentionally to show the immense spiritual authority that Jesus was giving to his followers. By context, most people were farmers and labourers, and they were earning 1 denarii per day. The handing out 5 talents would have been a massive shock value to the audience. Now, the concept of burying wealth would have been quite normal to the audience because ordinary people didn't have access to banks, and wealth was typically physical— it would be gold, silver, or expensive textiles. It was standard practice to bury these things for For safekeeping. Now interestingly, framing the servant who buried the wealth as wicked says that self-protective, safe religious practices are unacceptable in God's kingdom. And this really was signaling the changing times and the revolution that Jesus was bringing. So meanwhile, your Pharisees believed that their job was to defensively preserve God's law and heritage, keeping it isolated and pure. Jesus is coming along condemning that 3rd servant and saying that preserving God's truth inside of Israel's border is over. A new era is coming that requires active expansion, sharing the gospel with the wider world. And finally, the parable itself is written in Matthew 25. And Matthew 25, again, is toward the end of Jesus' ministry. And there are 2 other parables in there, and together these form essentially a trilogy of readiness— what we should be doing in the time waiting for him to come back. And each of these parables highlights a unique aspect of readiness, and it shows us that true readiness is about heart, stewardship, and action. We start off with the 10 virgins, which is about heart, showing our authentic internal relationship with God. I'm waiting prepared, and the value of being prepared whilst we are waiting. The parable of the talents that we're going to get more into shows about faithful investment of resources and gifts. It's about stewardship. It shows that waiting is not a passive event. Our relationship— it also looks at our relationship to possessions and abilities. And finally, at the end of Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats is about action. It's how we treat the least among us, relationship with the people we So getting back to the parable of the talents and even comparison culture, we often look at the 3rd servant and we think, that guy's just lazy, he doesn't want to work. Yes, he was lazy, but his first— his fault, the thing that triggered it all, it began with a comparison. He looked at a single talent in comparison to the man with 2 talents and 5 talents And thought, in comparison to that, why bother? This is insignificant. It's not needed. Now, this comparison bred resentment for what he was seeing those around him being given. Although, as Matthew says, it was given based on their ability. Now, he later masks this resentment as fear when the master calls him to accountability. What's important here is the size of our assignment is completely irrelevant. The integrity of the stewardship of that assignment is everything. Comparing our portions to others just simply paralyzes productivity. And who are we to know? Well, actually, yeah, mine's smaller than the next person's, but maybe they've been doing this for longer. Maybe they've been investing their talents for longer. And that's why they have something else. Ultimately, it's not for us to even think that, but we don't know the story. We don't know why other people have different assignments and talents to us. We just know that God's given us all something to do, and we just need to get on with what we've been told to do and not to compare it to what everyone else is doing. Now, while the, um, The 2 faithful servants entered the marketplace. God's currency isn't money, it's trust. True stewardship requires vulnerability and active risk. So the 2 that went into the marketplace and doubled their investment— there's going to be a bit of risk in that. You don't double your investment without taking risk. You don't buy and sell and trade without taking risk. And when the master came back, he rewarded them for this active and courageous effort. You know, he said, well done, good and faithful servant. It wasn't, and by the way, never ever ever risk my money like that again. It was like, no, you did a good job. Take it as it is. Now, God prefers messy, risk-taking faith over this safe, Sterile, passive faith. Burying our potential in a hole to avoid failure is not acceptable in God's eyes. And finally, at the end of this, what do you do after a job well done? Well, God rewards work with more work. This is often referred to biblically as the law of use and increase. But reward for faithful work is more responsibility. And the master rewards 2 of his servants with more work, and they also share in his personal joy. So serving God isn't a vacation. It's a promotion into a greater unhindered partnership with God and sharing in his joy. So whatever task God has given us, no matter how great or how small, Especially how small, if we do that task to the best of our ability in his name, we're going to get a bigger task afterwards, or a more responsible task. And over time, these tasks will grow and grow and grow, as does our relationship with God. So when we think about this in our own lives, do we have a tendency to comparison? Are we happy With where we're at, or are we comparing ourselves to others? And that can be life, can be our body, our career, our family, our church. Ecclesiastes 5:19. Moreover, when God gives someone wealth and possessions and the ability to enjoy them, to accept their lot and be happy in their toil, this is a gift from God. Being happy with what we have and not wanting what others have, that contentment, that peace, that is a gift from God. When it comes to trust, are we actively doing what we've been entrusted to do, or are we burying our wealth in the ground? Are we avoiding taking that risk? This looks a bit too risky, or I'm going to be a bit too vulnerable, so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna sit in it for a while, and you know, maybe I'll pray on it some more and think about it some more. There comes a time when you know we are called to action. Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do your will, for you are my God. May your good spirit lead me on level ground. And when it comes to reward, are we are we stepping up to the next level, or are we looking for a holiday? Romans 12 verse 2: Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. We are waiting for the return of the Master. We are waiting. for Jesus to come again the second time. Whilst we are waiting, the waiting itself is not a passive event. There is much work to be done, and it is not optional. Whatever job we have been given to do, whatever the Master has entrusted with us, no matter how great or how small, it's the how we do it. It's the heart in which we do it.

Dan Orange: That counts.

Ade Birkby: Now, to quote the truly crazy 1980s movie Cannonball Run 2 soundtrack, it's not what you got, it's how you use it. The gifting, the task, the responsibility, the size of it doesn't matter. It might look smaller and less important than others, but it deserves the same level of effort. The effort is rewarded, and that is where the well done, good and faithful servant comes out of. Challenge you all, I challenge myself, let's strive to be the faithful servant. Let's take our eyes off what's around us and put our eyes on the target in front of us, and let's do our best.

Dan Orange: Amen.

Ade Birkby: To hear those words one day, well done, good and faithful servant. Thank you very much. That's all I've got for you tonight.

Will Sopwith: Thanks very much, Ade. Oh, it's a challenging parable, that one, for sure. Dan?

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: What thoughts strike you?

Dan Orange: I think for me, thanks, Ade. I think the bit that stood out was the comparison, isn't it? Um, I, I listened to a podcast this week. Um, it's a great, great podcast called Inspired about different Christians and how just from all over the world, things that happened and to them and their lives, just normal people. And this guy that had seen loads of stuff happen, um, he, he said, just follow God's plan for your life. But just, he also said, which really struck me because I've heard this lots of times when I was young and growing up, oh, God's got a plan for you. I don't know what it is. It's people that will do all these amazing things, and like, you're looking at, you're looking around at what they're doing. Um, and he said, just ask God what's next and do what's next. And that's what he did. And that's why I've always done in my life. He's, you know, whether it's job, whether it's marriage, give it to God, pray about it, and yes or no. You know, there's— I don't know what my— my— I don't, I don't have this goal that's something, you know, big at the end. It's just following him in that plan and not comparing myself to, to others. And it was great to see he hear someone that all these things had happened through him. And, um, it was just listen to God, do that. And, um, yes, that comparison really struck me with, with that, with what you said, Ade, and what I heard this week.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, as with so many of Jesus's parables and, and scripture in general, actually, it's so much about the attitude of our hearts, isn't it? And I thought you brought out that really well, Ade. And, um, I think I've I've, yeah, I've heard people talk on this parable. I've read this parable probably since I was a young man. Um, and that it's— the comparison is very easy to, to step into. Um, but actually it's all about— I mean, what struck me this evening looking at it again was immediately the man with 5 bags of gold, immediately he went to work. He was kind of, he was eager. He possibly overwhelmed by the amount of money that had just been given, but that didn't kind of spook him. He was just like, okay, let's see what we can do with this. Much like you were saying, it's like each step. Um, and, and the guy that buried it in the ground was very much, I don't know what to do with that.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And maybe he was also daunted by having a whole talent to, uh, to do anything with. Um, but that kind of enthusiasm of heart, that That desire to give it a go, to take risk, as you said, Ade, I think is— and I think that does delight God's heart. I think what I've always struggled with in this parable is that, I mean, in one of the other gospels, that the master is described as this kind of cruel taskmaster, which I don't feel like is a very good picture of God. And that's another thing I think we can fall into. And probably what I did fall into as a young man is thinking, Oh, I've got to do all this stuff for God. I don't know how to do it, and he's going to get back and angry if I've not kind of doubled my profit sort of thing. Um, I think this is one of the examples where you need to read, read more widely in what Jesus says. Um, and it's always intriguing. You don't know quite what the context is. As you said, this is in, in the middle of 3 other parables, 2 other parables either side about being ready. uh, ready for Jesus's return. And it was a very particular context I think he was probably speaking to. And we never get the benefit of who the particular audience was. It tended to be a crowd. And, uh, it'd be interesting to know why, why this story for that crowd at that time was important. Um, but yeah, that, that attitude of heart that says, wow, yeah, this is a bit overwhelming, but I'm gonna see what I can do. Like the guy with the 5 bags of gold is like, yep, straight away. Let's see what we can do. And as you said, it's not about the amount. It's not about the 5 more bags. It's about that attitude to give it a go, which I really like.

Ade Birkby: Yeah, I think, and really, they both really pull their sleeves up. They got dirty. They took risks. They went straight into the marketplace. There was no, ooh, let's think about this, or, ooh, that's a bit messy. It's just, here's a task, let's just go and give it our all.

Will Sopwith: And I think that, that shows the relationship they have with the master, doesn't it? There was a kind of a trust there and a, yeah, I'm up for this. Um, but yeah, the servant that was in fear and said, oh, you're, you're a hard man, clearly didn't have that same relationship with the master as those that kind of got on with it. There was a Yeah, there was an enthusiasm to, to work with the master's wealth rather than, uh, yeah, just ignore it and bury it.

Dan Orange: Yeah. Um, yeah, I love that the reward was the same. The reward in terms of what the master said. Yeah, well done, my good faithfulness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Sopwith: Again, it was on the amount.

Dan Orange: Uh, yeah, it's not the amount. That's almost, almost irrelevant, isn't it? It's, it's the father. Yeah. Well done, my good and faithful servant. That's what I'm—

Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: Wanting to, wanting to hear. That's what— yeah, we just want to do what he, he's asked us to do. Um, I was reminded of, um, the verse that we're one body, different, different parts. So your talent might look smaller to someone else's talent. Um, you know, like a a finger might look smaller than the body, but you can't do anything. No good having a body that you can't pick stuff up.

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Dan Orange: You know, it's— it is just being diligent with what God has asked us to do.

Will Sopwith: And I was thinking too of the story of the widow in the temple giving her single copper coin, um, and Jesus saying, who gave the most? And there were, you know, all these rich people throwing their money into the coffers, into the collection plate. Um, and Jesus says, look at this woman, she's given out of, out of what she didn't have, you know, she's given greater riches even though it's a tiny amount, um, because of what it cost her. Dan, what have we got? Have we got any questions, any comments? Um, while we're doing that, I was wondering whether you had any particular examples, just to put you on the spot, of where, yeah, this— you felt a, a commission, a task from God that you've Uh, you've jumped into with enthusiasm or maybe been a bit hesitant and buried it in the ground? Do you have any, uh, any life experience of, of this application?

Ade Birkby: Yeah. Joining CrowdLeadership. So, uh, when, when Sonia and I came here, we, we were weary, we were beaten, um, we were disillusioned. We had spent a long time working with various churches as we moved around, and we come to the point where, you know, we wanted just to attend a church and that was it. We felt we'd given enough. We felt with all the health challenges, no, you know what, that's it, we're done. And then, yeah, lo and behold, what are we now, 18 months, 2 years later, and we're pretty much well integrated into it, running a Wednesday group in the midweek, starting a prayer meeting, coming on here and speaking almost monthly now, and just being involved in crowd leadership. It's something that we never— we said we'd never do again. But when we were presented the opportunity and we prayed about it, we knew that this is what the Master was asking. And so it's like, okay, here we are.

Will Sopwith: And in case you haven't heard it, well done, good and faithful servant.

Ade Birkby: Thank you.

Dan Orange: Yeah, if the master asks, that, that's the, that's the answer, isn't it, really?

Will Sopwith: Yeah, if he asks, it's the readiness to, yeah, to give it a go.

Dan Orange: Um, and knowing that he— I mean, I know it sounds pretty obvious, but knowing that he loves us, he might give us something huge to do, and it's He, he not only loves us, he knows us and loves us, which sometimes when I look at it, I go, well, you know me and you still love me. Wow. Or you might say, you know me. Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And you know me and you're still asking me to do this thing that you know I absolutely suck at.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And, um, I'm gonna fall on my face. But he— yeah, I think God in his love, just as a loving parent, loves to stretch us. maybe challenge us.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And actually, you know, within this, there's absolutely space to be a little bit hesitant. Don't start condemning yourself that, oh, I'm not this straight into the marketplace with my 5 bags of gold. Um, you know, the Bible again is full of people who, who doubted, and yet God's— they always met with God's grace. Um, you know, he God does look for that attitude of heart that's willing to serve. But, um, but you know, if you're a little hesitant, a little, little risk-averse, uh, please don't count yourself out of that adventure with God because, um, he would like you to come around and trust him. Um, but, but meantime, you know, some people are, uh, are better able to dive in than others, and that's okay.

Dan Orange: It is. It's literally just what he's asked you to do. And it doesn't—

Ade Birkby: it—

Dan Orange: I, I can understand how that can sound daunting, but it's like, you, you'll get that conviction in your heart. I need to, I need to sort this in my life. And that's what he's asking you to do. You know, it's not necessarily, I need you to start doing talks or set up an organisation. We're not— that's not what, you know.

Ade Birkby: Yeah.

Dan Orange: all those people that did that, they didn't start there. God said, you know, well, spend some more time with me. And for me, that's where it all starts, and that's where he prompts me to go, okay, yeah, I'll spend more time with you. And that's— that might sound small, but that's, that's the best way to start. That's the most enjoyable way to—

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Dan Orange: To start anyway. If you want to do something for someone, it's great to get to know that person, isn't it? Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And yeah, picked up in the comments about your description of messy faith, Ade, which is great. And it's a parable, it's a story that Jesus uses, but in this kind of situation, it's very unlikely that you have the clear outcome and a certainty that that outcome will come. In taking a risk in things, we are very rarely assured of what will what will turn out. Um, and, and that kind of messiness of having a go and seeing what happens and, and, you know, coming back to God and saying, I don't think I did that very well, or, you know, God taking us in a different direction. It can be messy. Um, it can be messy. Sometimes we respond in the, in the, in the best faith that we have or the best revelation that we have of what we think God's saying, and maybe we get it wrong. And, you know, again, God's heart can well cope with that.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: He loves it when we when we give it a go, I'd say.

Dan Orange: Yeah, I was just— I'm trying to refresh myself with the, the parable work. Yeah, Jesus says anyway, but even if that person that'd been given all that, you know, the most talents, had gone out, invested, and lost it all.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, he—

Dan Orange: I think God would have said, yeah, well done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did something.

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Dan Orange: With it.

Will Sopwith: And that, yeah, thinking about the attitude of heart, the servant that hid the gold, because maybe they were a bit worried about losing it, maybe just got completely the wrong end of the stick. And he thought, oh, this is about this harsh master that really wants to get rich and make more money. And so he was a little bit focused on the outcome, maybe, rather than that kind of response of obedience. The other's just kind of like, hey, let's give this a go. This is fun. And he was like, oh, Yeah, maybe he was like, what if I do lose it? Um, he kind of got the wrong end of the stick. Um, and again, I think that points to— to me, that points to the fact he didn't really know his master and didn't really understand what he was being asked to do. Because I absolutely think you're right that even if you risk it and it doesn't work out and, you know, that the good and faithful servant Yeah, response I think is the same. Yeah, because he loves it when we have a go.

Dan Orange: Yeah, and also know from past experience that if, if it doesn't work out, he, he steps in. Yeah, he steps in. He doesn't do— he doesn't give you something that's not gonna— yeah, um, not gonna be possible, you know. He steps in and teaches us through it, and we learn. Yeah, you know, we learn through it. Yeah.

Ade Birkby: Yeah, seems the concept of messy faith is resonating quite a bit online. I think it's worth looking at it from another angle. So we're reading about the parable, and we're seeing the 2 that went out there, well done, good and faithful servant, and we look at that, and I'm sure we can think of examples of people who we hear their testimony, and it's like, it's amazing, and what God's done, and how he's done it through them, and we look at them, we think, you know, yeah, that's the of faith, stepping out in faith like that. Yeah, those people at the time when they were going through that, they didn't, you know, they, they, it felt messy. They felt like they were going by the seat of their pants half the time. And, uh, hearing the story, it looks like it's, it all fell together. It was all just so clear. But when you're in the moment, yeah, when you're in the moment, it's messy. It may not look messy to other people. But when, you know, when we're in that hot seat and we're making those decisions and we're stepping out in faith, yeah, sure, it's messy, at least from our perspective, but not necessarily from those who are being inspired by it afterwards or waiting through it.

Will Sopwith: It's a bit like when people have done something and they sort of get put on a pedestal of like, oh, that was a really heroic thing to do. And they're just like, oh, what are you talking about? It was just like an instinct to like anyone else would have done it surely. And that Yeah, that, that, that natural kind of, um, instinct, uh, to, to get involved, to hear God, to, to do what he asks. Um, they may not recognise the, the story that's written, the book that's written about all those heroic deeds. They go, this doesn't feel like it was. It was just— I was just getting on with it. That's what you do, isn't it? Um, that sort of level of humility, I think. I mean, for me, certainly, those are the people that I feel much more attracted to in their kind of stories of faith than the very scripted, oh, and then I did this.

Ade Birkby: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Ade Birkby: Yeah.

Dan Orange: Because that's real, isn't it? And that is, again, that relationship with the master.

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Dan Orange: It's like he's asked me to do it, so why wouldn't I? And the more we do, Like Ade said, the more we do, it's not, it's not, uh, do more to get more, to get a better situation, you know, get a place, better place in heaven. That's not it. It's just do more because he's asked us to, to do something for him, and he's seen that we can do it, and he just asks us again. And yeah.

Will Sopwith: And the, the end of this parable is, um, it might feel a little bit harsh, but Um, you know, the, the servant is sort of cast out where there's darkness and gnashing of teeth. But, but really all that is signifying is not being in the master's presence. And in a sense, the servant has chosen that. He's chosen that outcome and said, I, I don't actually— I don't know you. I don't really trust you. I don't really do want to be in this relationship where you're asking me to do stuff. And it's like, well, okay, well, the alternative is—

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: Outside the house in the darkness. So it can sound a bit harsh, like the master is punishing the servant. I think actually it's more, that's a kind of natural consequence of the servant's attitude to what the master's brought. And I think the master would far prefer to be able to say, okay, yeah, it didn't work out, but well done, you had a go. And here you are around the master's table, and here's some other things to do.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: Um, but in a sense, the consequence of not having that relationship is then that, that sort of being outside of the master's influence and, and, and table, which is, uh, yeah, it's not a good place to be.

Dan Orange: No, no. And as far as we know, he had the same understanding of the master. Yeah, it didn't say, you know, he'd only known him, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Will Sopwith: Why was that his response and not the others? Yeah. Um, before we wrap up, any other, any other questions on the chat that have come through? Sorry, I don't have that on my phone in front of me.

Dan Orange: Yeah, um, so Alicia's put some great comments on here, and then she says, yeah, testimonies have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I think it's easy to see how God was moving after we're out of the fire, um, than when we're in it.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, no, that's so true, Alicia. That's absolutely right.

Ade Birkby: Yeah.

Dan Orange: And it's also, um, this is something I, I keep thinking, and I need to do this more in my life, is writing stuff down to, to go, oh, God did that. And oh yeah, we asked about that, um, with our kids. We— it's, uh, yeah, I'll explain it. Um, So last year we were on holiday, um, and we'd we'd planned this holiday away abroad in Spain, and we said to the kids, this might be, you know, last time for a bit because we've saved up for it. And we were away for 3 days, and then my wife got a call and her mum was really ill, um, emergency surgery, open heart surgery.

Ade Birkby: Mm-hmm.

Dan Orange: So we, we flew home and, um, and there's, there's lots behind That, um, how to say it, my daughter's got autism, so, so going away and somewhere we can all be together, it's sometimes one of the times we can only, you know, really talk together and just, just different reasons. So it wasn't just, it's great to be away, it, it's a lot for our family.

Ade Birkby: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: It's great, great time together. So when we were, we were flying home, we said to the kids, look, I don't know how we'll do this again, but Let's pray. Let's pray for a holiday. We don't need a holiday, but let's, let's pray that we could do it again next year. And, um, so we flew home. Lisa's mum had a massive operation. She's doing really well. In fact, she drove yesterday. Yeah. So this is a year on. Um, and so she's, yeah, she's doing really well. Um, a couple of months ago, I was talking to one of my customers and he asked me what we're doing. I say, oh, nothing planned at the moment. Um, this happened last year, but we're just seeing what goes on. He said, Do you want to stay in my villa? Um, and I was like, okay. Um, so the reason I'm saying that is that we—

Will Sopwith: it was great because you're an awesome hero of faith, Dan. Wow.

Dan Orange: It was just— we could— we said to the kids, there, let's pray about this. That it was a— it was an outward thing. It wasn't just something in my head. We talked about it as a family. And he, just out of his, his grace, and just because he's abundant, isn't he? You know, he didn't have to do that, um, but he, but he did. But it— when we're in it, just, just write those things down, store those things away so you can see his answer to prayer.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: Later on. Yeah, I hope that would— I hope that made sense.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah, that's a good—

Dan Orange: it's just great. It's a good challenge. It's great to be able to tell our kids as well, because, you know, we prayed about that, didn't we?

Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Orange: Look what he's done.

Will Sopwith: Yeah. Yeah, stories of faith like that, you know, you can— you'll talk about them in the future. Yeah, I'll remember that time.

Dan Orange: Yeah, yeah. And then 2 weeks before we went away, someone gave us some money for all the flights and the spending as well.

Will Sopwith: So if you need some holiday advice, Dan's your man.

Dan Orange: It's not— that's not like a— yeah, some things are easier to explain when they're physical things, aren't they? But it's not like— yeah, I don't want to be sort of naming and claiming that wasn't Yeah, it's just God loves to, yeah, loves to bless. But yeah, those things are easier to, yeah, to, to explain.

Will Sopwith: Yeah. And I think, you know, we're talking about our response to, to a situation, to, I mean, specifically to God asking us to do things, but, but I think our response generally, and, and that response of not getting kind of resentful, bitter, going, oh, we've, uh, this holiday we planned has been ruined. It was one of just opening your hands and kind of holding it quite lightly and going Yeah, here it is, we accept it, but let's pray for, for another opportunity. And I think it's, I think it's a great picture actually of, of how our attitude, uh, to our circumstance or, or what God brings, uh, can make all the difference. So yeah, so, so wrapping it up, whether—

Dan Orange: yeah, if there's any questions in, um, Live Lounge, they're gonna go—

Will Sopwith: Yep.

Dan Orange: Off now.

Will Sopwith: Yep.

Dan Orange: So, so they can chat amongst themselves and, and and, and talk there.

Will Sopwith: Yeah.

Dan Orange: And if you've got any questions in the comments, then please, um, send them in and we'll just have a few more, few more minutes here.

Will Sopwith: But if you're online or watching this on catch-up and you're not in the live lounge, then it's very good to, uh, have you. Please do get in touch, as I said at the beginning. And, uh, and maybe listen out this week if you get, uh, a nudge of maybe I should do, uh, such and such. Um, Maybe it might be a challenge from God. It might be a request from somebody else. But be willing to entertain that. Don't shut it down straight away out of any kind of fear or risk aversion. Have some messy faith. Dive in, see what happens.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: And, you know, if you've got a story to tell, we would love to hear it. But thank you all. Thank you very much, Dan. And thank you, Ade, for a great Unpacking of that story. And, uh, yep.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: Keep in touch.

Dan Orange: Is there any age you want to finish with?

Ade Birkby: Um, I think it's worth saying, if you don't use it, you lose it. We've talked a lot about the good and faithful servant. We didn't talk much about the one that didn't do as he was told, and that was then taken off him and given to those who were doing as they're told. So there's something for us to ponder about.

Dan Orange: Um, yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, don't, don't lose that salvation, but yeah, don't, don't miss that opportunity. Yeah, forgot what— for how much. Yeah, God wants to do with you.

Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah, he's got— God's got more for you than that.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: Than burying it in the ground.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Will Sopwith: So give it a go.

Dan Orange: Okay.

Will Sopwith: Thank you all very much. Enjoy your discussion in Live Lounge and we'll see you next week. Same time, 7 o'clock next Sunday for the livestream. You are most welcome. Bye-bye.