Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." To modern ears that can sound arrogant and exclusive, like a door shut on everyone who believes differently. Sharon Edmundson takes that discomfort head on, from a very particular way to cut a tomato, to C.S. Lewis, to sweets at the cinema, and shows why the claim is actually the most inclusive invitation there is. And why these words were first spoken not as a challenge, but as comfort to frightened friends the night before Jesus died.
01Talk notes
Does it sound arrogant for anyone to claim there's only one way to God?
We live in a world that loves options. Many paths, many beliefs, all heading up the same mountain to the same place. So when someone says their way is the only right way, we tend to bristle. It feels narrow. A bit rude, even. So this week, Sharon Edmundson looks at the time Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."
To our modern ears, this can sound exclusive and rigid. But the words of Jesus are actually far kinder than they first appear, originally spoken as a comfort and not a challenge.
02The Only Right Way to Cut a Tomato
A few years ago, Sharon and some friends were staying with people in France who are brilliant at hosting. One of the guests was an Italian woman who loved to cook, so a few of them asked her to teach them gnocchi with tomato sauce. They set up a table in the garden and got to work. Sharon and a friend were put on tomato duty. Easy enough, you'd think.
Apparently not. They were doing it wrongly. There was, it turned out, only one correct way to cut a tomato, and they weren't doing it. Which made no sense to them, because the same bit of tomato was going into the same pan to be cooked and blitzed anyway.
So here's Sharon's question to us. How do you feel when someone insists their way is the only way? Arrogant? Narrow-minded? That's exactly how this famous line from Jesus can feel.
03An Invitation, Not a Rulebook
Most religions and philosophies say "this is the way" and then hand you a set of rules. A moral code. A way of life. Do these things, avoid those things, and you'll be fine.
Jesus does something different. He doesn't say "here's the way", He says "I am the way". He offers Himself. A relationship, not a to-do list. He does show us how to live, but the heart of it is Him, not a checklist you have to keep.
It's a bold claim, and it's worth taking seriously. Some people like to file Jesus away as a good moral teacher and leave it there. The writer C.S. Lewis argued that Jesus never really left us that option. Given the things He said about Himself, Lewis reckoned there are only three honest conclusions. Either Jesus was lying, and knew it. Or He was deluded, on the level of a man who thinks he's a poached egg. Or He was telling the truth and really is the Son of God. A liar, a lunatic, or Lord.
Lewis put it like this.
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
So if Jesus is right, we can't shrug it off.
04Exclusive and Inclusive at the Same Time
Here's the twist. Yes, Jesus makes an exclusive claim. He says He's the only way. But in the same breath He throws the doors wide open to everyone. You might know the line even if you've never set foot in a church.
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. (John 3:16)
Whoever. Everyone's invited. So why does Jesus insist He's the only door in? Because He's the only one who can fix our deepest problem.
And our deepest problem might be different to what you think it is. It isn't politics, or a shaky economy, or AI taking over, or the idea that some people are just bad and the rest of us are basically fine. The book of Ephesians tells us that without Jesus, we are all spiritually dead.
That phrase needs unpacking, because it sounds dramatic. In the Bible, death basically means separation. Physical death is the spirit separating from the body. Spiritual death is the human spirit being cut off from a relationship with God. And what causes that separation is sin.
Sin is a religious-sounding word, so here's what it actually means. It's missing the mark. Falling short of God's perfect standard. Going our own way and shutting God out. And it makes sense that turning our backs on the source of all life would leave us cut off from life. Walk away from the thing that gives light and you end up in the dark.
05Why It Has to Be Jesus
So why can't God just wave it through? He's meant to be loving, isn't He? Can't our good deeds outweigh the bad?
Sharon uses a courtroom to explain. Imagine someone seriously hurt a member of your family, and you took them to court. In the dock they said, "Yes, I did it, but I'm great with my kids, I help my neighbours, I've given loads to charity, so can we call it even?" You'd think they'd lost the plot. That's not justice. Doing something good doesn't cancel out doing something wrong.
God is loving, but He's also just. So instead of pretending the problem isn't there, Jesus deals with it Himself. Christians believe Jesus is God come to earth in a human body, who took the penalty for our wrongdoing by dying in our place and then rising again, because death couldn't hold Him.
That's why He can call Himself a mediator, a go-between who brings two separated sides back together. As one of the early church letters puts it, "there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus."
So it isn't arrogant for Jesus to say He's the only way, if it's actually true. In fact, it's no more narrow-minded than a doctor telling someone with type 1 diabetes that they need insulin rather than paracetamol. It's not snobbery. It's just the thing that works.
06Why We'd Rather Pick and Mix
Still, it rubs against us, because most of us would love to build our own version of faith. A bit like choosing sweets at the cinema. Grab the chocolate peanuts and the fizzy cola bottles, leave the hard-boiled ones you don't fancy. A little mindfulness here, a few crystals there, a carol service at Christmas.
The appeal is obvious. We get to design a spiritual life that never asks anything of us and never tells us we're wrong. But that's also the catch. A faith you've curated yourself can only ever agree with you. It can confirm what you already think, but it can never challenge you or change you.
Jesus doesn't offer Himself as a nice add-on to the life you've already built. He offers Himself, and invites you to turn from your own way and follow His.
07But What About People Who've Never Heard
If you're thinking "that's all well and good, but what about everyone who's never heard about Jesus?", you're in good company. Sharon raised the same question and was honest that there's no tidy answer everyone agrees on. She laid out three views Christians hold, all argued from the Bible.
- The Exclusive view says a person needs to consciously hear about Jesus and believe, or they can't be saved.
- The Inclusive view says someone who never got the chance to hear, yet genuinely sought God, could still be saved through what Jesus did, even without knowing His name.
- The Judgment According to Knowledge view says God doesn't hold people to account for information they never had. They're judged on the truth that was actually available to them.
08The Line That Started as Comfort
These words can feel like a challenge thrown down to us, but that's not how they were first heard.
Jesus said them in an upper room in Jerusalem, at a meal with His closest friends, the night before He was killed. The tension in the city was thick. The religious leaders were closing in. And into that fear, Jesus tells His friends He's about to leave, and that they can't follow Him yet. They're confused and frightened. "We don't know where you're going," they say, "so how can we know the way?"
That's when Jesus answers, "I am the way." The brutal death He was walking towards was the very thing that would make a relationship with God possible for them. It wasn't a slammed door. It was a hand held out in the dark. Comfort for their biggest fear, and ours, both now and beyond death.
09Where Do You Go From Here
In Conversation Street, Dan Orange and Dave Connolly picked up on the idea of rules, keeping them and earning God's favour.
Sharon admitted how easy this is to do. "Have I prayed enough? Have I done this enough?" Ellis said something similar in the comments, about gravitating towards rules out of fear. Dave's done the same, and that the difference is relationship. He compared it to a marriage. If the only time you spoke to your husband or wife was to keep them sweet, you wouldn't be building anything real. God, he said, knows our hearts. He'd rather have us honest than performing.
Dan said that rules can tell you what to do, but a relationship is a different thing altogether. It's the difference between following a list your dad left on the fridge and actually sitting down to talk something through with him.
So wherever you are with all this, here's Sharon's question.
If you already follow Jesus, are you still living as though He's the only way to God, or have you slipped into trying to earn your way back to Him? And if you don't follow Jesus yet, is it worth taking His claim seriously enough to look into it properly? Because if it's true, it's not a minor detail. It's the most important thing there is.
Whether you've been part of church for years or you've never stepped through the door, you're welcome to keep wrestling with this with us.
Topics in this talk
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Dan Orange: Well, welcome to Crowd Church tonight. It's great to, um, be here. It's great to be with you. Um, today I am joined by the wonderful Dave Connolly.
Dave Connolly: Hi, Dan. Great to be here.
Dan Orange: How are you doing?
Dave Connolly: Having a really good day.
Dan Orange: Yeah, good.
Dave Connolly: I can hear Matt in me head.
Sharon Edmundson: Is that why you're having a good day?
Dan Orange: Um, and also joined by Sharon.
Sharon Edmundson: Hi everybody, good to be with you.
Dan Orange: So we've got, um, a great talk lined up. Sharon's asked me not to say anything because everything I say is like a spoiler. So it's just, you've got, you've got to wait for the talk. Yeah. Um, Yeah, we've been doing this series, Jesus the Revolution, which is— it's been great, hasn't it? I've really enjoyed it.
Dave Connolly: Yes, it's been— it's just taken matters out of my head. Yeah, it's been a great, really useful talk. Yeah, very practical.
Dan Orange: Yeah, and I just love how, yeah, Jesus was a revolutionary because he's— I suppose it's obvious in a way because he's God. He doesn't have to go with the culture. He just, he created us. Yeah, it's nice to hear all these different aspects, isn't it?
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: But we have the idea of Jesus being meek and mild, but in these talks, um, that, that's big statements. Yes. You know, and, um, and in a few weeks, a talk I'm doing, it's great. Yeah. It's a bit like a James Bond movie.
Dan Orange: Brilliant. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. Are you, you ready, Sharon? Shall we?
Sharon Edmundson: About the live lounge?
Dan Orange: Ah, yes. So there's already, um, some people joined, uh, in the live lounge, and I can see, I can see Ade and Sonia, I can see Kath. See Ellis. Um, my eyesight's not good enough to read some of the names, so I'm really, really, really sorry, but it's nice to see you all. I can see smiling faces. Um, and if you want to join the live lounge, then the link is in the comments. Um, a live lounge is like, well, it's essentially a Zoom call, but you can get together with other people and, and it's a bit more of a community, isn't it? Because you can talk about, um, You can send in questions as well, which we'll talk about here, but then we'll have some time afterwards to talk through questions. It's great just to, just to be able to chat to people about these topics.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Dan Orange: So if you're any way interested, then, um, please just log in. Yeah, it'd be great to have you on the, on the Zoom. And what we'll do, we'll have the talk, um, and we'll discuss questions. So if you've got any questions, just put them in the comments, um, and we'll talk through those questions. And then the livestream on YouTube will finish and we'll sort of go into Live Lounge and have a bit more of an informal discussion. So, yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Dan Orange: It'd be great.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, so, Sharon, without any further ado, I'm looking forward to this. Go ahead.
Sharon Edmundson: Cool. Fabulous. Okay. So, many years ago, some friends invited us to stay at their home in France, and these friends are great at hosting groups of people and mixing different friendship groups together. And one of the people we met there was this lovely Italian woman who loved cooking. So, a couple of us asked if she would teach us to cook an Italian dish, and she agreed to teach us to make gnocchi with tomato sauce. So, we set up this table in the garden and got to work. Now, me and my friend were tasked with cutting the tomatoes. Easy job, right? We thought so, but apparently we were doing it wrongly. How can you cut a tomato wrongly? Don't answer that. We were shown the correct way, which was the only right way, the only acceptable way. And we couldn't understand what the fuss was about because the same part of the tomato was going into the pan to be cooked and then blitzed. So, from our thinking, what did it matter how it had been cut to get there? So, I want to know, how do you feel when someone says that their way is the right way and it's the only way? Do you think they're arrogant or maybe narrow-minded? The verse we're going to look at today can seem like both of those things, and it can feel really exclusive. But before I get into that, let me remind you of the bigger picture, the bigger context of why we're talking about this. Mm-hmm. Dan mentioned a little bit about that. So, we're in the middle of a series about Jesus the revolutionary, and we started by looking at his teaching about belonging and what it means to live in a loving community with each other. But now we're spending a few weeks looking at his more challenging teachings. So, what is today's verse? It's this. Jesus told him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. Hmm. Now, to our modern ears, that can sound really arrogant. In the West, society as a whole values multiculturalism, religious diversity, and the idea that many spiritual paths lead to the same destination. In our, in our cultural context, this verse can often sound really exclusive, rigid, and narrow, and it can feel like a barrier that invalidates the faith, morality, or worth of those who don't follow Jesus. So, other religions and philosophies say, this is the way, and they give us a set of rules to follow, like moral teaching or a way of life. But what Jesus says is really different. He says, I am the way to God and I am the only way. So, he offers himself, not just a list of things to do. He offers a relationship rather than a system or a roadmap, though he also does show us how to live. So, it's a really bold claim. And some people see Jesus as a good moral teacher and nothing more. But C.S. Lewis, the scholar and novelist, said Jesus didn't leave us with that option because of the claims that he made, such as this one.
Dave Connolly: Right.
Sharon Edmundson: He said there are only 3 options open to us about Jesus. And I think we've mentioned this quite a few times on the livestreams. So, C.S. Lewis says Jesus was either a liar, knowingly deceiving people. He was a lunatic, delusional on the level of someone claiming to be a poached egg, or he was Lord, the actual Son of God. He also said, Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
Dave Connolly: Mm-hmm.
Sharon Edmundson: So, if Jesus is right when he says he's the only way to God, we need to take that seriously. It's an incredibly exclusive claim. It's saying all the other ways, they're wrong.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: But while Jesus is very exclusive, he's also incredibly inclusive. Because although he says he's the only way, he invites everyone to come to him. You might, even if you've got no church background, you might be aware of a verse, um, John 3:16-17, which says this: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, That whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. But why does Jesus claim that he is the only way to God? It's because he's the only one with the answer to our deepest problem. So what is our deepest problem? Is it that we've become so polarised in our beliefs that we've replaced dialogue with the demonisation of those who think differently to us? Is it poor economy and untrustworthy politicians? Is it the rich oppressing the poor or one ethnic group oppressing another? Is it AI taking over the world?
Dave Connolly: Hmm.
Sharon Edmundson: Is it that some people are just bad people and have a negative effect on the rest of us good people? Let's see what the book of Ephesians has to say about this. So Ephesians 2 says, once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil, the commander of the powers of the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature, we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else. So, our biggest problem is that without Jesus, we are all spiritually dead. So, death in a Bible— in the Bible fundamentally means separation.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: So, just as physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body, spiritual death is the separation of the human spirit from a relationship with God. So what, you might ask, what separates us from God? Romans 3 says, for the wages of sin is death. So spiritual death is caused by sin. We're separated from God by our sin. Now, sin's a bit of a religious word, but it just means to miss the mark, to miss God's perfect standard. It's the act of going against God and his ways, of shutting him out of our lives.
Dave Connolly: Mm-hmm.
Sharon Edmundson: And it makes sense that When we go in the opposite direction to something, it separates us from it. So, it's God who's the author of life and all that is good. So, again, it makes sense that if we turn away or turn our backs on him, that leads to death, decay, and destruction. So, how does Jesus help with this problem? So, as Christians, we believe that Jesus is God come to earth in a human body to pay the wages of sin, that is death. Mm-hmm. On our behalf by dying in our place and then rising again. You might say, couldn't just God just overlook our sin and let us off? He's meant to be a God of love. Or can't our good works just outweigh our bad? No, because he's also a just God. Imagine, for example, if someone seriously abused a member of your family and you took them to court. If the abuser in court said, look, I know I've committed a crime, but I've also done loads of good things. I'm good to my kids, I help my neighbour, I've given thousands to charity. I haven't been in trouble with the law before. Can't you just let me off this matter? We would think they were crazy. That wouldn't be justice. Doing something good doesn't cancel out something bad. So, Jesus died in our place. He paid the penalty for our sin, but because he's perfect, death couldn't hold him. Romans 3 continues, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And all are justified freely through his grace, through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ. So, Jesus is claiming he's the only way to God because he answers our deepest problem, which is separation from God. He's the only one that can mediate between us, or between us and God. 1 Timothy says this, for there's one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all people. So it's not narrow-minded or arrogant for Jesus to say he's the only way to God, if that is in fact true, just as it's not narrow-minded of a doctor to say you need insulin for your type 1 diabetes rather than paracetamol. But it is, however, challenging—
Dan Orange: Mm-hmm.
Sharon Edmundson: —recognised through a culture that wants to claim that all religions are equal paths to the same destination. And it's challenging to us because really we want to pick and mix our religions just as we pick and mix our sweets at the cinema, taking the bits we like, like the chocolate-covered peanuts and the fizzy cola bottles— might be slightly contentious— and leaving the bits we don't like, like the hard-boiled sweets. A bit of mindfulness here, some crystals there, church service at Christmas. The appeal of that is we get to design our own spiritual experience without having to submit to anyone else's claims. Yeah. But this self-curated spirituality can never challenge us. It only confirms what we already believe. So Jesus doesn't, um, offer these nice add-ons that we can just— so we can live our best life. He offers himself and he invites us to turn away from our own way and follow him. But that leads me on to naturally think, but what about those who haven't heard about Jesus? As you can imagine, as always, there are several different viewpoints about this that are all argued from Scripture. And I don't have a definitive answer to this question, but I'll give you 3 of the most common views, and you can study it more for yourself. So, the 3 main views are the Exclusive View, the Inclusive View, and the Judgment According to Knowledge View. Catchy title, that last one. So, the Exclusive View is that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary to be saved, and that if people haven't consciously heard And believe the good news about Jesus, that they cannot be saved. And that view is based on verses such as Romans 10:14, which says, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then can they call on the one they have not believed in? How can they believe in the one whom they've not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach Jesus unless they are sent? So, So the inclusive view is that if someone hasn't the opportunity to hear about Jesus, but sincerely seeks God and is trying their best to love him, that they will still be saved through Jesus' death and resurrection, even though they don't know him by name. And this view is very based on verses such as Romans 2:12-15. I think this is a longish passage, but I'll read it anyway. Mm-hmm. And it says, all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For is it not those who hear the law who are righteous— sorry, it's not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it's those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles who do not have the law do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. And there are other verses as well. So, the third one, the judgment according to knowledge view, is that God doesn't condemn people for information that they've never had, but they're judged based on the truth available to them. So, if you want, we can— Pick up on that more in Conversation Street. Yeah, it's a big one. So, we've talked a bit about how challenging these words of Jesus are to us, but it may come as a surprise to you to know that in the original context, they weren't actually said as a challenge.
Dave Connolly: That's right.
Sharon Edmundson: They were said as a comfort. They're part of a pep talk that Jesus was giving to his closest followers just before he's about to be killed. And they were all eating a meal together in an upper room in Jerusalem. And the tension in the city must have felt palpable as the religious leaders were sort of manoeuvring in for the kill. You can imagine the fear and the anxiety in the air as Jesus tells his followers that at this crucial time, he's about to leave them. Mm-hmm. And that they can't go where he's going. They can't come straight away, but they'll follow on later. And they are as confused as usual. And they're like, they say, how can we join you? We don't know where you're going. We don't know the way. And that's when Jesus says to them that he is the way. So the brutal murder he's about to experience is the very thing that makes it possible for them to be part of God's kingdom and his family. It's the thing that makes their relationship with God possible. And it speaks to their biggest fears and our biggest fears, giving them hope. Yeah. In this life and also for after death. So, if you're already a Christ follower, my question for you, are you still living as though Christ is the only way that you can have a relationship with God, or have you switched and now you're trying to earn your own way to him? Very easy to do. If you're not yet a Christ follower, can I encourage you to seriously look at Jesus' claims? Mm-hmm. Because if it's true, it's of the greatest importance in your life. But for now, I'm gonna head over to Conversation Street and, uh, we'll discuss it all further and hopefully pick up on your comments.
Dan Orange: Wow.
Dave Connolly: Wow, that's great.
Dan Orange: Yeah. Thank you, Sharon. There's a lot to, to go through there, isn't it? It's a, as a Christian, it's a very famous verse. I am the way, the truth, and the life. And I, um, I've been in church since, well, my dad started the church, so I was in church before I could talk or anything. Way back in Jesus' day. Yeah, it's a long time ago. Um, and I just heard that verse a lot, and it's like a memory verse.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Dan Orange: But it's only recently where it's— I've realised its hugeness, you know, because it is— it's that word the, isn't it? You know, that sort of singles down. But yeah, so much to unpack in that talk. Um,
Sharon Edmundson: and I didn't pick up on the truth bit of that verse because I think we're doing that next week. So,
Dan Orange: uh, okay. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: So
Dan Orange: we've got
Sharon Edmundson: lots more focusing on Jesus being the way this week.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Dan Orange: And, um, and also in, in, I think in Acts sometimes they were, they were called followers of the way, weren't they? That was, that was what they were called, the early Christians, you know.
Dave Connolly: Yeah, yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, is there anything that jumped out first, Dave, that you want to jump in with?
Dave Connolly: Yeah, I, I thought it was great when Sharon said how the word was like a word of comfort, you know, in that moment. And I like the clarity of it.
Dan Orange: Yeah,
Dave Connolly: you know, um, for them You know, because they were waiting for a Messiah, you know, and waiting for a Messiah. Now we have somebody who is proclaiming himself as the Messiah, and he's not saying, well, come just anybody you want type of thing, you know, anything will do. He's very clear, and the language that he uses, the Jewish culture of the day would have been very familiar with it, you know, and The thing that stood out, he was basically, when he was saying he was the way, um, he, he, he's saying the way is all about, um, for them in that culture, when he's talking about walking in a proper manner before God. Mm-hmm. You know, you, you, you finish with that, then you almost know, are we walking in the proper manner, in the proper way? Namely, um, for them, you know, it's, it's like, it's, it'd been keeping the Torah, you know, observing temple rituals, Yeah, and keeping the commandments. But this is about relationship.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: He's saying, you know, will you walk in my footsteps? Will you follow me? And yes, there's all this other stuff going on even today, you know, and it's like we have all these options. Well, everybody can find their own way. And Jesus says— and I love the clarity.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know,
Dan Orange: yeah, there's no ambiguity. Yeah, no ambiguity. Look, look, Look at me, follow me. Yeah, follow what I've done, follow what I'm about to, you know, what I'm about to do, what I'm about to step into. That's the, that's the way, that's the, the freedom, that's what he's about to,
Dave Connolly: yeah,
Dan Orange: create for us.
Dave Connolly: And it's crazy when he says, you know, I am the way, and it's all like, you know, following that way. But where was he going?
Dan Orange: Um,
Dave Connolly: you know, he's heading to Calvary, isn't it? Yeah. You know, and, you know, we pick up the whole thing about picking up the cross and following him. And I think, oh, it just ties in the whole story. Um, you know, it, it's so precious.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Each of these, like, are treasures in it that Jesus, you know, follow after me, walk in my way. You know, it's clear, it isn't ambiguous at all. Um, I think only we do that when we don't want to surrender ourselves. And I think you have to surrender yourself to walk the way.
Dan Orange: Yeah, you do,
Dave Connolly: you know.
Dan Orange: Yeah, I think you, you, you picked a bit on in your, on your talk that, um, that, that famous C.S. Lewis quote that we've got to decide what to do about this decision. It, like you say, it's so clear, it's unambiguous. It's like, well, either follow me Or don't, but you've got one of those two choices. You can't don't ignore this. Yeah, it's too it's too big to ignore. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dave Connolly: I mean, I find it you know just just adding something I said before, and and it's this we're moving from if you keep a set of rules because that's what it's been up to this time. You know, if you do good, if you do da da da da da da. you know, if you make the right sacrifices, um, if you go to temple, and if you do those things, that will bridge the gap between you and God. And now we have the bridge is Jesus.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And it's not a set of rules, it's relationship. And we must be crazy to settle for rules over relationship. And we're offered relationship, but sometimes, you know, we find ourselves erring towards a set of rules, you know, if I go to church, you know, if I do this, if I, you know, pay my tithes, if they do— but it's about having a living relationship with Jesus. Yeah, that's what's, that's what's available.
Dan Orange: Rules can be— I'm just thinking, you know, if you, if your parents set out rules, you can follow them, but if you got to go and talk with your dad about something's happened, it's different, isn't
Dave Connolly: it? Yeah, yeah.
Dan Orange: You know, that relationship is different to just being told do this and do that.
Dave Connolly: And Jesus says he's come to fulfil those rules, you know what I mean? All those things that were up until that time, they were the right things to do. That was God's provision of sacrifice. If you sin, you go and make the appropriate sacrifice. But now Jesus is the one and only sacrifice.
Dan Orange: Yes.
Dave Connolly: And it just, I think, you know, when he's sharing this, you know, with the disciples, and you think about all that's happened and all that was about to happen, the intimacy of it, It's relationship.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: It's really— why would we want to settle for a pattern of life that is just religious and is dead and is all about works?
Dan Orange: Yeah, yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, when we're free of that?
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and it's just about walking with him and loving him and realising that he accepts us.
Dan Orange: Yeah. And I think— go on.
Sharon Edmundson: I think it's very easy to slip back into that though, isn't it? I think there's something in us that kind of wants to earn our way and feel like we deserve.
Dan Orange: Yes.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And it was reminding me of, um, some verses in Galatians where— so it talks about, um, it said, did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? And I— it's like it was true then, it's true back now. So, um, yeah, it's just saying like we receive Jesus' gift of life by faith, not by doing all these good things. And then we're meant to carry on living by faith, like trusting God. But it's like there, it's easy to switch into, oh, I need to do all the right things now. And, and we, and we do want to do the right things, but it's out of relationship rather than trying to earn favour.
Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Quite subtle.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Sometimes.
Dave Connolly: Go on, sorry,
Dan Orange: Dan. No, go on, I've got something to say.
Dave Connolly: I was just going to say that, you know, again, Sonia just said it before, I don't think it's easy to walk in the way, because, you know, there's all this stuff going on around us, and, you know, we talk about Jesus saying, you know, you're sharing with somebody, you know, well, Jesus said he's the way, you know, he's really saying he's the only way, you know, and the only truth and the only life. And you can almost feel the air being sucked out of the room. How can you say that? You know, and if we say that, we'll put people off wanting to know Jesus. And you're like, well, unless people can understand that he's the only way, they'll never know him.
Dan Orange: Yeah,
Dave Connolly: yeah. You know, and I just find it, you know, it's not just this generation. I think we like to say, you know, modern society today, and we blame them for everything. I think it's just in people. The moment you say, Jesus said, I am the way. If you look at other religions, there's loads of ways in, you know, and, you know, do X, do Y, do, and it'll be fine. Don't worry about it. You know, with Jesus saying, I'm the only way. And there's a choice.
Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know,
Dan Orange: and going back to sort of the link between relationship and you talked about spirituality and that separation. from God, that being spiritually dead is that separation. And, and that, to me, that comes more into play when we know that, um, it's a relationship. If it's just rules or something, then what have we, what have we lost? What have we separated from? But if it's a relationship with, with the King, with God the Creator, then we've lost everything if we have that, if that distance between us, that separation, that That death. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Well, I think we have lots of rules, don't we? Um, in, you know, different areas of life. And some of them, you know, they're good, they're there to keep us safe, you know, whether, you know, it's, um, speed limits or whatever it is. There's lots of rules and they're there for good intentions, but most of us don't know why we have them. Where when we, when we follow the way, we get to knowing. When we walk in the way, We have fellowship, we have communion, we have relationship. We get to understand why we're being called to walk this way and not another way. How when we walk this way, and it's a narrow path, and you look over there and it's a wide one, and it would be so much easier to go with everybody else. And, you know, people wouldn't be saying these nasty things against people. It's like, people don't understand me because I'm walking the way.
Dan Orange: Mm-hmm.
Dave Connolly: And, and that's part of the price of walking the way.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, if we want to know what the way is like, see what it was like for Jesus.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And then see what it was like as we get into Acts, because they encountered very, you know, similar things or same things as Jesus.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Just looking at some of the comments. Um, yeah, Ellis has put, Dave mentioned rules. To be honest, I find myself auto-piling towards rules out of fear at times. I think that's so common and so easy to do. I know I've done it loads myself. And, um, I think more so, I, I think the more I've gone on in my faith, I think that's less often, but it still can be tempting to be like, oh, have I prayed enough? Have I done this enough? And it's like, hang on a minute. That's, that's not how Jesus works. That's, that's going back into rules. But yeah, I can. Yeah. I think we can probably all empathise with that one.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Um,
Dave Connolly: I think that's such a good, really good point, you know, because just think if the only time you speak to your husband or, or, you know, wife is just to keep them sweet, you're not actually building a relationship, are you? You know, um, being in relationship, you want to do those things. And, you know, Sharon said, you know, we've all done those things. I think that's right. But you know what? God knows our hearts.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and he does want us to tune in, he does want us to pray, he does want us to read his word, but he knows our hearts. So, you know, we can be doing them, we can be doing all those things, and our hearts not be in the right place.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, so the old analogy is, you know, the mum says to the little 4 or 5-year-old toddler, get in your car seat in the back. He's like, no, no, no, no. And she does all, you know, the gentle parenting stuff. You know, da da da da da. And she's still fifteen minutes later. They're not in the car. And in the end, she's so exasperated by things. She picks him up and forces him down and got a knee in his chest, and she's locking that belt. That's not gentle parenting. And and she locks him in, you know. And and the little you know you you look at the little boy and he's still angry, you know. And the little boy is probably saying, you know, I maybe sat down here. But on the inside, I'm stood up and I'm still yelling. You know, we can be like that. God knows our heart.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, so let's be real with him.
Dan Orange: Yeah. And I think going to Ellis's comment, sometimes there can be that sort of tension between discipline and law, can't there? You— discipline is a great thing, but it can very easily step into law. But it can also go the other way. Well, because I've got this grace, I don't have to do anything. And then there is that, there is that tension. And like you say, If it's a relationship, you're, you're more wanting to do it, to do it anyway. You know, these things get, get easier and more common in your life, more rhythmic.
Dave Connolly: Legalistic. When we, yeah, when we get legalistic over things, we lose the joy. And for me, um, I have to say that, you know, um, I, I start saying, I'm done doing better than you, or But not as good as Sharon, but better than you, Dan. You know what I mean? And, and, and there's that like little bit of judgment. And, and we look at somebody and their life clearly isn't what it should be. And we don't have any, we, we just have more rules. Let's share our rules with them rather than a grace saying that God is enough for you, my friend.
Dan Orange: Which Jesus being the way again solves, doesn't it? It says just follow him. Let's follow his, his example, his life.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. Will's put, it's not an easy message, Dave. It's much more comfortable To not have to make an exclusive decision. Yeah. I think it's— but I, I agree with— I think to get over the initial hurdle of, like, you know, this is quite a bold claim, and to, to make that first step, I think it is quite a difficult thing. I think I'm at the point now where I, I'm actually happy that somebody does know, like, Jesus is it, and that I don't have to make up my own rules and figure out my own thing, work out my own purpose. Because it's like, oh Jesus, he can tell me all those things. And that I find that now I've made that initial difficult decision.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Now that feels like, oh, this is good with someone who knows better than me.
Dan Orange: Yeah. I'm reminded of that, um, the Indiana Jones, you know, step where he's got this chasm and he just can't get out, work out to get to the other side. And he throws his sand out and there's a bridge and he puts his foot on it. And sometimes it feels like that, that we don't— before we get to know Jesus, we don't know how. Yeah, but once, once we made that step, these things sort of like, oh yes, there's so much ahead of me. There's just lots of other things, but we've got that, of course he's the way. I, I can, I can stand on that. It just— when you look back, you go, well, that was, that was really hard without God.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Dan Orange: I do, I do think that. How did I do that without Jesus? You know, yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Ellis has put an interesting one here that'd be good to have your thoughts on. So it's, I don't want to rest on my laurels, so often try to do more and struggle to find the balance. So how would you say you find the balance between— obviously it is about grace and receiving from Jesus, but at the same time he does say, this is the way, walk in it. So how do you get that balance?
Dave Connolly: For me, it is about discipline. Or the discipline. So I think, um, I've been really, really fortunate, um, to have people in my life to teach me the word, to disciple me in the word, to teach me how to pray, to disciple me in prayer. And I think they are the two things that cause— that they— those two things are— they just shape my life because they all focus on Jesus. You know, what I read really shapes what I pray, builds faith into me, and it inspires me, you know, because I get to know why am I walking the way, what is the way about. And, and I think that's really important that as we walk in the way, we're telling other people about the way.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and I think that's really important. So for me, it's all a I, I probably say this most times I'm here. It is about the discipline of prayer and the way— it's not about how much, it's about just engaging in the process of communing with God.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: What about you?
Dan Orange: Yeah, I, I think, I think that, and I think, um, it sort of jumps on to some of your questions at some of those 3 points at the end. And for me, like, it's how that verse— how will they know if we've— if no one's told them? Yeah, yeah. For me, if I want to tell more people about Jesus, I need to get to know him more. And it's, it's a vicious cycle, but in a good way. I want to know him more, want to understand him more so that I can tell people about him. And, and having that action, having that, um, the chance to do that, the desire to do that, helps my discipleship, helps my discipline, because I want to tell people about, about Jesus. Yeah,
Dave Connolly: well, walking the way affects how we speak, think, and act.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: It has to, surely, you know. And, um, and I think people, they may not want to notice it, they may not like it, but for other people, they do notice it.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And they have questions because they see that there is actually— we call it fruit of repentance, don't we? You know, there are fruits of walking with Jesus, and that is that we become more like him.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: I think for me, it's probably not that I am always do this every day, but I think that having that daily thing of purposefully choosing to connect with God on a heart level.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And going, okay, God, what are you saying to me today? And including him in all the bits that I've got going on in that day. Um, and starting from that point. So start— so when I'm reading the Bible, doing it from that, okay, God, can you speak to me today? Rather than going, okay, I have all these disciplines which are good, but it can be— I can then get into the, okay, I just need to get all through these things, and if I've done those, it's all good. Yeah. So it's— for me, it's starting off with that heart of like listening to God and connecting.
Dave Connolly: Yeah,
Dan Orange: yeah. And that often leads into those other disciplines of reading your Bible, praying and stuff anyway, doesn't it? Because you started the day off that way, so you want to continue it. It just does help. Yeah, yeah. Um, Kath in the live lounge, um, has, has said, I also thought separation from God was our fall into sin. and God doesn't choose to be away from us because he's so holy he can't actually be in our presence. Also, the way it was described about, um, Jesus overcoming death was the first time I'd really understood it, that sin equals death. So thank you for that, Sharon. So that really helped to understand. Um,
Sharon Edmundson: yeah, I wonder whether it's more that we can't be in God's presence because— yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah, it's just— yeah.
Dave Connolly: But it's sin that separates us from God, isn't it? You know, it's not that— it's not God who separates us from God, it's sin. And from, you know, from the very beginning, you know, um, I believe I would call it the rescue plan was ready, you know, you know, the coming Messiah, you know, God's rescue plan to redeem that situation, to redeem man, because his purpose is to commune with mankind. That's what he built us for. That's why he's created us.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and he's done everything he can, and yet he lovingly and graciously gives us the choice.
Dan Orange: Mm.
Dave Connolly: You know.
Dan Orange: Mm.
Sharon Edmundson: Another thing I was thinking of as I was preparing the talk, which I didn't say in it, is that for some people— because I've been talking about relationship with God— but for some people, they might be like, but what is God like anyway? And, um, it just reminded me of how Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
Dave Connolly: Yes.
Sharon Edmundson: And, uh, just as we've mentioned C.S. Lewis a lot, I also mentioned The Chosen a lot, but because I just think it's a great way of actually being able to visualise a bit more God in a human body and what that actually means in terms of— I think they just portray it portray Jesus so well in that program. So if you've not watched that, give it a go. Um, I think some people feel like the first couple of episodes are a bit slow, but if you stick with it, um, it's just so well done.
Dan Orange: Yeah, it does really help bring, um, just the life at that time as well, doesn't it, into, into reality, knowing that it's not just a book. Like, the Bible is, it's descriptive where it needs to be descriptive, but it doesn't it's not a novel. It doesn't draw out all of those other things. And The Chosen, because it has to be a program, fills in some of those. You know, obviously someone's got to have thought them, but fills in that thing and just helps you realise that this wasn't just a book. This was a true life story. These were witnesses that wrote these things.
Sharon Edmundson: And I think something that came across to me in that was that Jesus in his humanity and living that close with people and the physical contact and the hug when people needed that. And it's like, oh yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And it talks about how was it, um, I think, is it John who described himself, I was the disciple that Jesus loved. And it talks about in one of the gospels about him leaning on Jesus and you're just like, oh yeah, that's like he's leaning on God.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And that just gives a very different— so you have got this, um, Jesus who— he's not a pushover and he makes some really bold claims and he, yeah, he's pretty straight a lot of the time. But you've also got that other side where he embraces us and it's like, this is quite amazing.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: So it's great to watch that and like read your Bible alongside so that you can see which bits are actually there and which bits are, you know, interpretation.
Dan Orange: Yeah, it might be a good way to start getting getting into the, the Bible, perhaps watch an episode and see if you can find little bits of where it's written. And I keep coming back— lots of what we've talked about these last few weeks, some of the main verses are taken from John's Gospel. And I just think if you're, if you're struggling with where to start with the Bible, then get a hold— well, we can all do it now on the internet, can't we? Just perhaps start at John's Gospel and read it through, because it's quite a nice, easy, easy sort of story to to, to get into. And there's lots in there, but you get, you get everything, don't you?
Dave Connolly: Well, we get to see an insight into what Jesus is doing and how he's doing it. I think what I love about The Chosen is just all those things you said, Sharon, about, you know, how he speaks, you know, and, and he wasn't this pushover, but just For me, it's just the gentleness and even seeing the anger at times, you know, and seeing the joy, but seeing his desire and his commitment to reaching out to people.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And even when they've done crazy things. And honestly, you know, The Chosen, it's a dramatisation.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, it's not a literal Bible thing.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, yeah.
Dave Connolly: But for me, I find it really helpful. You know, I've watched it and wept, you know, and just 'cause I'm thankful.
Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Just because I'm thankful, I'm like, you know, yeah, I relate to that Jesus. I see that.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And I think the humour of Jesus comes out, you know, the little tweak, cheeky comments, and you're like, oh yeah, actually God is the one who's invented humour and laughter. But we can, I think, put him in church terms and like think everything's somber. And
Dan Orange: yeah,
Sharon Edmundson: I think that comes up as well. But yeah, there are definitely some bits of the interpretation I'm like, hmm.
Dave Connolly: But it's very relational again.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, so for me, you know, relationship's very important. You know, I love that. And that would be very cultural, you know. Um, but it's just this persistence in his thing for relationship, you know, not giving up on people. And there's some real amazing, You know, gems, how they've caught it that you wouldn't, that I wouldn't actually think in the word. You know, where Jesus is talking to the disciples and he's saying, you're gonna go with him and you're gonna go with him. And it gets to little James, as they call him. I think it's episode 12. And he says, you know, James, I think you put some with Peter. And he says, you're gonna be with Peter. And you can just see the life fall out of this guy. You know, he's got a bit of a walking issue. Yeah. He goes outside, and and Jesus, you know, can see that he's he's concerned, and and he's like, Jesus, why have you put me with him? You know, he's got it got it all together, you know, and I've got this impediment, and you know, this I'm disabled type of thing, you know. Da da da da. And Jesus's words—I'm not even gonna I'm not gonna say what what they are because I don't want to you know. I, I won't do it, you know, justice, but just how he looks at him, it's just this thing of love. And he's like, like, it's almost like you're— I've done it deliberately.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: To do you good, you know. Um, yeah.
Dan Orange: I think, um, is it— we need to sort of draw this to a close, don't we? We need to jump into Live Lounge. Is there anything you wanted to share before we Well, we do.
Sharon Edmundson: No, just Alicia's put some, um, interesting things in about that, you know, the what happens to people who haven't heard about Jesus. But maybe we can pick up on that when we go into lifelines.
Dan Orange: Yeah, I think, um, it— that, that is a, it's a big topic, isn't it? And I just— for me, it's like, well, one thing I do know, need to tell more people about Jesus. So I love that we can do that because that's, that's a given, isn't it? If you, if you know the truth, then let's tell people about the truth. And, and that God is— God's a judge and he's, and he's pure and he's, he is truth. And who better to, to leave those things to, if you like? Yeah, yeah,
Sharon Edmundson: yeah.
Dan Orange: So yes, so we'll, uh, leave the discussion here on YouTube and we'll dive into Live Lounge. Um, and we've got another— we, we've been holding back on this and we say he's the way and he's the truth. And is that, is that next week? The truth? I think it is. And that—
Sharon Edmundson: quote me on it.
Dan Orange: Yeah, um, I'm very much looking forward to that. Yeah, Dave, Dave does like, um, quite a few times a week, don't you? You release like a blog and you've met some things in there. And, um, there was, there was talk about truth, and especially nowadays it's your truth. And so I'm really looking forward to next week as well. It's going to be great. So, um, yeah, we'll see you all This week and look forward to seeing you next week and see some of you in, in a live lounge.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Cool.
